00:00:00:03 [Speaker 1]: Okay. So my name is Michelle and I'm a senior rotational clinical pharmacist.  

00:00:04:14 [Speaker 2]: Perfect. And we're going to start with a fun one. What frustrates you the most about pharmacy?  

00:00:10:14 [Speaker 1]: Ooh, what frustrates me the most about pharmacy personally? I probably would say the fact that people may not have a good understanding of what I do in my role as a pharmacist. And so I think it's the underestimation of what pharmacy is and the responsibilities, the roles that we have, and the oversimplification of the role too, from, I think from the perspective of the general public. So I'd say that's like, they just kind of simplify it down to, Oh, just the chemist. And I'm kind of like, yo, it's a bit more than that. So I think that would be probably what 

00:00:43:21 I'd say the most frustrating thing about a career in pharmacy or of being a pharmacist, I would say.  

00:00:49:03 [Speaker 2]: That's great. And why pharmacy? Why did you choose,  

00:00:53:00 [Speaker 1]: Ooh, uh, why did I choose pharmacy? Um, so I wanted, uh, I was so scientifically inclined, you know, I went to when I went to sort of secondary school and college as well, so sixth form, um, I had a good sort of science background, you know, I did all my chemistry, biology did a bit of psychology. I was good at math. So it kind of made sense for me to go into a role that was sort of, you know, based around science, but I did have an interest in healthcare. Um, and, but I also didn't want to go the direction of just being a doctor. Um, because I there's a lot of bit 

00:01:26:22 about being a doctor that I thought maybe it's not my it's not tailored to who I am. And so I found after doing some research and speaking to people who were in the, um, in that role, that actually, it's, it's a map, it's a sort of a combination of, you know, being scientifically using your scientific knowledge and using your scientific skills as well as, you know, and, and working in a healthcare setting, but also not being a doctor.  

00:01:50:02 [Speaker 1]: So you get to be an expert in medicines, but not necessarily in, you know, everything else that makes one P one a doctor. So it was like the perfect balance for me personally. Um, and the evolving role that pharmacists have now. So things have changed over the over time. So from even being, as you know, I guess simply doing supply of medicines to now, we're really kind of clinical now. So we work very, very closely with doctors, nurses and all the other allied health professionals, like the occupational therapist and the physiotherapist. So, um, I did think, 

00:02:24:07 Oh, I really, really liked to be part of this clinical team. Um, but also kind of maintaining a S a slight distance from the really gory medical side, if that makes sense. So it kind of felt like the right place for me personally. That's pretty good. Thank you.  

00:02:42:04 [Speaker 2]: I think you touched on it already, but what really excites you about pharmacy?  

00:02:48:16 [Speaker 1]: Oh, um, actually I think even more recently I was talking about this. I find that every day is a bit sort of different. I think seeing a variety of patients and, um, the learning as well. So my learning curve literally is car. It always goes up, you know, I always learn something new every day. Um, the different types of, um, opportunities I get as well. So pharmacy is not, so I'm a clinical pharmacist. I work in hospital, um, there's community, which is pretty much, you know, you're working with closely with the GPS and you have that 

00:03:20:22 sort of close relationship with your patients constantly cause they usually visit the community pharmacy. The hospital is quite fast paced. So with what I do, I think it's because it's fast paced. It's like, okay. So my learning curve, as I said, really, really sort of high or inclining, I would say, um, and it's keeps that tussle bustle vibe about it. So, um, that, that is pretty much what kind of excites me about it.  

00:03:46:06 [Speaker 2]: Yeah. You said before kind of, you're very focused on things and you can focus on lots of things at once. Is that kind of all you're talking about that busy-ness and so I'm predictability that you kind of,  

00:03:57:17 [Speaker 1]: Yes. Yeah. So you might even on a day where you wake up and you, maybe you haven't had that much sleep and then you get in and you see something quite interesting or challenging and you think, okay, right. This is a challenge for me and how am I going to tackle this? So it's not predictable. Um, it's a hospital. So every kind of see everything come in and as an expert in medicines, you really get to, um, be really involved in advise. I think that's another thing being, having that clinical expertise and being able to, um, advise and, you know, intercept, potential errors, you know, it's like, and people come to you for your 

00:04:28:11 advice because they know that, you know what you're talking about. So there's always speak to the pharmacist. I'm not going to give this medicine right now because I don't think it's safe or there are some queries on this as well. So, um, I do feel very valued in hospital or working as a pharmacist as well. So, um, yeah,  

00:04:45:09 [Speaker 2]: What's the most rewarding moments for you,  

00:04:50:06 [Speaker 1]: As I just mentioned is just the whole picking up on things before they potentially become dangerous to the patient. Um, being able to make a really, really, you know, um, significant clinical intervention. So a patient might come in to the hospital and maybe they've PR they're prescribed some sort of medications that there are, some of them they've been on before they came into hospital. Some of them are newly started. And, um, sometimes because of course it's really, it's busy, there's a lot going on. There can be these errors, they can be things that 

00:05:21:19 are missed out. Um, and so being able to catch those things and go, actually, no, that's not correct. Or we've missed something out, are you sure you want to go with this and then getting the Oh yes, thank you for that. That is very rewarding. And also working very closely with the patients as well, and being able to explain to them why they're on stuff, because they are sometimes they're on a lot of medications and they don't really know why they're taking them.  

00:05:44:15 [Speaker 1]: So, um, being able to speak to them and clarify, okay, so this is for your blood pressure. This is for your cholesterol. Um, this is how it works, if you're interested. Um, and that way they have a sort of better understanding and they're more compliant with their medications because know why they're taking it and the importance of taking it. Um, versus I guess the benefits sort of risk is sort of explained to them and they, they then know the importance. So they kind of take responsibility for their health and their, um, you know, medication because they know why they're taking it. So, um, yeah,  

00:06:15:14 [Speaker 2]: You're empowering. Absolutely. Uh, in terms of your role here, could you tell us what that looks like day to day activities kind of thing?  

00:06:31:17 [Speaker 1]: I will try and go, Oh goodness. Sequential order. So I come into the ward in the morning. Um, I pick up my bleach, that's my first thing, get into the department, pick up my bleed because that's how I'm contacted wherever I am in the hospital. Um, they need to be able to nurses, especially all the doctors, maybe need to contact me on my pharmacy team as well. And pick on my belief. I go onto my ward. I familiarize myself with who I have on the ward. So I would have a combination of new patients who've just come in and patients who have been there. Um, and I start with my engineers or prioritize based on what sort of, you know, 

00:07:03:03 clinical situation we have. Um, so we want to see the new patients first. So doing a drug history is I worked very closely with pharmacy technicians as well.  

00:07:10:20 [Speaker 1]: So medicines management technicians who would speak to the patients and gather sort of a background of what the patient's taking, um, and sometimes they'd know any sort of additional things, anything around sort of social history, whether they're actually taking their medications properly, um, whether they have everything with them and what they need as well. So sometimes they don't bring their meds in. So then they make a note of what we need to order for them. Um, and I would then at that point, if the drug history is done, I would be screening. So we call it a sort of clinical screen. So checking that everything is appropriate and safe for the patient and that the doctors haven't sort of 

00:07:44:00 missed anything out, or if there's anything else that should be prescribed because of maybe why they have come into hospital. So that's pretty much it I'd be looking at the drug charts and whatever they don't have that they need. I'd be ordering those medications, um, from our, our, um, dispensary. Um, what else would I be doing discharges? That's another big thing that pharmacists do. Um, I think in hospital it can be the priority because they really try, they try and maintain that flow. So CSC the new patients screen them even review the old patients, but also make sure that when the 

00:08:13:11 patients are going home, they have all their new meds or their old meds as well as anything else that they need sorting out. And, um, so we do these sort of discharge notifications and checking their meds, making sure everything is on there and say for them to go and making sure that the patients also know what's new and why it's spin started, et cetera. Um, that is sort of, I guess, the, in the most basic sense, I think that sort of covers covers it. So, yeah.  

00:08:39:06 [Speaker 2]: But is there, um, have you got any moments that you remember from your time so far, like as a pharmacist that kinda you hang on to? Oh,  

00:08:49:10 [Speaker 1]: That's a good question. Hm. Interesting. I might need to think that one, a moment, a moment. Um, actually I can think of one patient actually. So I was I'm on a admissions ward and so it's very fast paced patients come in and ideally they're either discharged within sort of a couple of days or, um, they move on to a longer stay ward. That's more, um, focused on what their care needs are. Um, and so I had this patient who 

00:09:21:18 had a serious, she had a lot of medications, you know, and she had quite complex, um, medical history. So of course it did make sense that she had all these medications, but I think I was looking through all of them and I thought, right, how can we, I could kind of tell she was a little bit fed up with her. We call it a pill burden. She has a lot of meds she's taking, even though she knows what she's taking them for. Um, I look, when I see a long list of medications, I always try to do what I call deep prescribing if it's possible getting the doctors to review those things and go, Oh, these needed, um, can we, is there any way 

00:09:52:22 we can optimize and reduce the amount of pills she's taking while still covering all the, all the conditions? Um, and it was just taking the opportunity that day, even if it was busy to sort of speak to her and empathize with her in that sense. But also I was able to make some clinical interventions, so actually reduce the amount of medication she was on. Um, I was able to sort of speak to her. She had a lot of social stuff going on as well. So it was really kind of talking to her like a human being, even if she's in the hospital, she's, she's in the hospital, she needs our care 

00:10:20:20 and everything, and yes, we prioritize all the clinical stuff, but it was also, she was upset.  

00:10:25:05 [Speaker 1]: She was a little bit, you know, disorientated by why she was in hospital. So, um, it was having that sort of, it felt kind of like I was speaking to a friend, so, um, and that really sort of stuck with me. So when she was readmitted, she remembered me and it was kind of, it was nice that she remembered the experience and the impact I had on her. Um, and the next time she just, I felt that sort of trust initially. So it was like continuing the conversation with my friend. I'd seen him about a month prior. Um, so that's the most recent memory I can have of something 

00:10:55:16 that kind of stayed with me. So if I see her again, it'd be like, Oh, hi, you're back in. What's up.  

00:11:04:20 [Speaker 2]: Um, okay. You want to make these quick far? You're good to talk it really fast. You've got so much information. Uh, so what skills do you feel you've been able to develop in your work?  

00:11:23:13 [Speaker 1]: Um, Hm. I would say time management is a big thing, especially when, you know, I know when we do interviews and everything, you always, they ask you what sort of skills do you have and you say all time management and then you're faced with something that makes you think, Oh, actually, maybe I wasn't great as great as I thought I was. So I'd say, um, being able to prioritize as well. Um, because whilst there's a lot of important things that I'd need to do in the day, I may not have the time physically to do everything. So it's about prioritizing then following up 

00:11:54:05 the next day, um, knowing what I need to get to you today and then, and then maybe later on in the day or move it to the next day, because it's important, but it's not necessarily as urgent. Um, so I definitely say time management prioritizing and working well under pressure, uh, before I started my admissions rotation.  

00:12:13:03 [Speaker 1]: Cause as I said, I'm rotational, I was on a elderly care ward, which is a little bit slower. You know, the patients are there for longer. So you have a bit more time in the day to review these patients. They're more frail elderly patients. Um, admissions could be anything and they, you literally blink the drug chart's gone or the patient's moved elsewhere. And so it was just kind of like where I have to see all these patients within this time, um, and trying to stay calm and still, you know, be really, um, careful. So because if I'm rushing, I could 

00:12:45:01 miss, but potentially like really critical, um, things that I shouldn't be missing. So, um, being able to sort of stay calm in a, in a chaotic environment, that word has been used a lot this year. I'm just like, this is chaotic, this is chaotic. But somehow I've been told I stay very calm and nobody knows how stressed I am because I've managed to sort of learn how to stay calm even though I'm internally I'm screaming. So I would say that's probably the biggest thing I've learned recently or the biggest skill skill I've improved on recently. 

00:13:15:03 Yeah. You learn a lot about yourself. Um, yes. Yes. That is another thing. Um, so I am naturally, I have a ref, I sort of developed a reputation as the pharmacist. Who's very assertive at work. Um, I have I've learnt because I haven't always been as confident as I appear. And so when my friends and my colleagues described me as quite confident and when they see me speaking, they're like, you're so assertive. How do you do that? And I'm like, I don't, I don't know because I used to describe myself as a little 

00:13:45:17 bit like shy and everyone now laughs at me when I say that, because somehow in this role as a pharmacist, not just here, even from my previous, um, placement, I've learned how to speak to consultants and I don't shy away because I think traditionally pharmacists have been known to be the members of the team who maybe sit in the corner and just, they're just kind of facing the chart.  

00:14:07:10 [Speaker 1]: Um, they don't really speak much and not heard much. Um, I feel like I maybe had made it my personal mission to be the opposite of that. Um, when I was learning about pharmacy, this was one of the examples that they said it's really important to make your presence known. It's really important to have build a relationship rapport with your, with the consultants. Yes. They, they know what they're doing, but you're also quite knowledgeable. You are the expert. That's why I keep saying the expert in medicines and just carry that title because you know what you're doing, of course don't overstep, don't go above your level of competence, 

00:14:39:03 but you know what you're doing, believe that. Um, and so I've just embodied that assertive person that goes onto the ward and goes right. Um, who's looking after this patient in a room full of doctors. Um, and I would go straight to the doctor and say, right, can I just discuss this patient with the, is there a reason why, so do not be afraid to challenge you, not be afraid to ask the question because they might have a reason for it, but you don't know. Um, and so ask the question at least. So you know that when you're signing something off as okay, and safe, 

00:15:08:04 you've asked the question and if you're not still short document it, that sort of, that sort of, um, they sort of processes. So being really assertive has actually, I think I've maybe really, I think, I think I've reached the peak I can with assertiveness at this job. Um, and I quite like it cause I've been, I've been told I have a reputation for being that pharmacist. So, um, and I'm not, I'm not upset about that actually.  

00:15:32:07 [Speaker 2]: Good, good. Okay. Um, now how do we do, she made us the last one and then we're going to get some shots of you walking around the hospital. Um, I wonder, could you offer any advice to convince people that pharmacy is for them, if they have maybe gone on the internet are like, ah, shit, I've become a fireman or a pharmacist. What would you say to them?  

00:16:00:09 [Speaker 1]: Um, I would say if they, so first of all, know your strengths, um, and if you are like, I was sort of scientifically inclined, but not entirely sure of what, where you want to go. If you do have an interest in subjects like chemistry, biology, you know, the base, the basics and physics and maths, if you already have that down and you're like, okay, I do want to go into something that allows me to hone in on, on these sort of skills and the knowledge I have. Um, I would say pharmacy is 

00:16:31:02 because it's not fully understood by the general public. They don't really know what we do. Um, it is very clinical. So if you're not sure, um, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily compare it to something that's outside sort of healthcare, um, because everyone has their passions. But if you do have a passion for science and healthcare and really want to make a difference and, um, but also want to work in a, you don't, it doesn't necessarily have to be in hospital because there are pharmacists who work in industry, um, where the, in the sort of pharmaceutical companies and we have pharmacists 

00:17:02:19 work in community, but I would definitely say do some research, um, speak to pharmacists, um, really speak to them and ask them about their job, especially the ones that you might know if you have any ones in your family, any friends, um, and maybe even if you are going to university and wondering, okay, I'm not sure about it.  

00:17:21:07 [Speaker 1]: You can call the departments, the pharmacy departments, and you can speak to someone who can advise you, um, engage in your careers activities as well. Um, and ask about the role. Um, it is very, I find it rewarding. I know that sometimes people can say working within the NHS is a bit challenging. Um, but if you do have a knack for wanting to help people scientifically inclined, not necessarily want to do the daily, I guess the, you don't want to get the gory stuff. I say medicine is great, but it's definitely very hands-on. Um, and if you didn't 

00:17:54:21 want to do that type of medicine, then I would say pharmacists pharmacy might be the next best if you're not, well, actually in my opinion, the best, but, um, pharmacy is definitely a way to go if you wanted, if you wanted to go, if you, if you were curious about it, um, try it out the best, um, what makes it the best, right. I think it's, again, if you consider yourself a med, like I keep saying 

00:18:22:07 this expert in medicine, it's really nice to be able to understand, like, really understand the chemistry of how the drugs work and be able to go. Actually, I would suggest that you can actually suggest or something, or do you want better type of that, that sort of energy when you speak to the doctors, like, why are we going for that? Can we not go for that? Another drug that I think is better that research actually shows that this is so you can really present them with facts that they may not be privy to. Not because they don't know, but because they're focused more on something else. Um, and so I think there's the element of I'm on the ward. I don't 

00:18:52:12 necessarily need to run around when things are chaotic, but, um, I, my advise and my place here is very it's invaluable. So, um, that's why I think it's the best personally. I didn't really want to run around and do a thing. A lot of things that the doctors did, I kind of want to be, be in my little zone, um, do what I do, focus on what I do, but I'm still very instrumental. So, um, I hope that kind of makes sense. Where  

00:19:17:19 [Speaker 2]: Do you feel the most instrumental?  

00:19:20:08 [Speaker 1]: Um, when you say, whereas  

00:19:22:08 [Speaker 2]: In, just in your job, like, is there a moment where you're like, yeah, I really mattered. I made a difference here.  

00:19:27:22 [Speaker 1]: Honestly, it's been on a missions ward is because a lot of, um, I think there are a lot of admissions that patients, patients come into hospital because of sort of medication related incidents. Um, and it could be that the drug that they've been on for such a long time, it's no longer suitable for them because something has changed. Like their kidney function has gone down Hill and sometimes it's very much been able to predict that I could see why this patient's coming to hospital, just from reading the notes and looking at their medication. You can go, Oh yeah. Okay. This all makes sense. So it's like knowing that and then going and being able to speak to dots and go, I think they're on this, this and 

00:20:00:09 this could, that potentially have fed into why they'd come in here. And it's, it's just being able to, I guess sometimes hone in for them, like focus on, give them the sort of thought process when they're doing their, um, even diagnosis. Cause you can inform diagnosis based on if it's something that they've come in for that's based on their medication, you can sort of go is could it be this as well? So, um, I've completely forgotten the question  

00:20:26:24 [Speaker 2]: That I want to ask. Just finally, if you had to give a mission statement for what you're trying to do as a pharmacist, and you only had to say like five seconds  

00:20:39:14 [Speaker 1]: And mission statement,  

00:20:41:20 [Speaker 2]: Like we're trying to change the world. What a second, what would I  

00:20:48:02 [Speaker 1]: Say? I have to think about this one. I can, I think I can S I can see it somewhere. I just need to be able to ride it. Hmm. Ooh. Can be simple. Maybe saving lives, but one, one pill at a time. You wouldn't want to say that then, because I don't want them take one patient one patient. Yeah. Or I it's kind of, Yeah, maybe, maybe I'd say one patient interaction at a time. Not, not pill 00:21:22:04 doesn't sound okay. Right. So I would say saving lives one patient interaction at a time. That's really important. I would say. Okay. Saving. Yeah. So what I would, my mission statement as a pharmacist would be saving lives. One patient interaction at a time.