James Wood - PSNC pharmacist
00:00:03:07 [Speaker 1]: Cool. Okay. So firstly, could you introduce yourself by telling us your name and your title?
00:00:13:19 [Speaker 2]: Hi, I'm James Wood and I'm the director of contractor and local pharmaceutical committee support at PNC.
00:00:22:24 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you so much. And could you tell us in, um, like day-to-day terms, what your job actually entails
00:00:34:04 [Speaker 2]: SNC promotes and supports the interests of all, um, NHS community pharmacies in England and, uh, were recognized by central government,
00:00:44:12 [Speaker 1]: Sorry, James, or your emails and a little bit of a pinging right
00:00:57:01 [Speaker 2]: Today. I'm so sorry. It will be cleaning like every minute. I'm just going to shut down outlook.
00:01:03:09 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, that'd be wicked. And
00:01:05:01 [Speaker 2]: Then it won't. Yeah. Sorry about
00:01:07:07 [Speaker 1]: That. No, no, don't worry. Cool. Um, if we start that bit again and you just tell us what your job looks like, day-to-day what those responsibilities entailed
00:01:21:02 [Speaker 2]: PNC, uh, promotes and supports the interests of all 11,500 community pharmacies in England. And we're recognized by government and, uh, the NHS to do that work on behalf of community pharmacies. We worked really closely with organizations called local pharmaceutical committees LPCs. And my role is to support the 70 LPCs across England. They work with the local NHS and the local government organizations to represent
00:01:54:16 community pharmacies, negotiate their local remuneration and support pharmacies, delivering NHS services.
00:02:04:16 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thanks James. And can you just tell us sort of a little bit about what your role in particular looks like? So, you know, an average day or week, what would you be up to during that time?
00:02:19:16 [Speaker 2]: So most of my role is focused on working in partnership with other organizations in, in the community pharmacy sector. So I spend a lot of time, uh, reaching out to, uh, our local pharmaceutical committees across England, working with key stakeholders, such as, um, NHS, England and other organizations. So a lot of time spent in meetings, um, working through complex issues and, um, working with lots of different people, which is great. Obviously, uh, some of this is done remotely. Um,
00:02:55:20 sometimes I'm based in the office.
00:03:01:11 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you. That's, that's good for us to get a sense, like a visual sense of what you're up to. Okay. It's
00:03:08:15 [Speaker 2]: Hard to describe even, I don't really know.
00:03:14:03 [Speaker 1]: Well, it's the kind of thing when you're doing something, you know, so routinely you kind of take it for granted, don't you, it's hard to describe. Um, but if we shift focus a little bit and think about what motivated you to get into pharmacy as a career, you know, we want to know what really excited you about the profession. What did you see yourself kind of doing in your career?
00:03:40:21 [Speaker 2]: I was always really interested in science at school and college, and I think a fusion of two things really came together and that was, um, which was why pharmacy was interesting. So I had had local work experience, uh, working in a, in a local pharmacy and in a, in a hospital. And that really opened my eyes to the real kind of wide ranging, um, diversity and variety within, within the profession. But also I
00:04:12:06 recognize that it's really underpinned by a really strong science, um, basis. I was also really interested in working with people and what really appealed to me about a career in pharmacy. It was being able to work, you know, on the kind of frontline, uh, with, with patients, but also have the option of working, you know, in other environments as well, and not, not just being tied down to one particular, uh, place, uh, and I've, I've had,
00:04:41:23 uh, you know, a number of experiences in several different areas, um, throughout my career so far. And that's really brought home the sense of variety and diversity that's really on offer within this profession.
00:04:56:05 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you. That's really important there. We definitely want to get a sense that it's a really diverse, you know, interesting kind of profession. You can go down different routes. Um, could you tell us why you decided to move into the sort of contracting side cause this differs from your sort of early career of like setting up and running the pharmacy that you were involved in?
00:05:21:03 [Speaker 2]: Well, I worked in a community pharmacy as a, as a frontline community pharmacist for six to seven years and I ran a, um, uh, a pharmacy and co-own the pharmacy for 10 of those years, um, which was a great experience, um, and in doing so I really got involved in the kind of management and the pharmacy business side, uh, of, um, community pharmacy, working with people, people management, but also, uh, working with the
00:05:51:24 wider NHS. And that really started, um, my journey into a different pathway and career within community pharmacy. Um, so I was involved in first piloting the use of the NHS summary care record in, uh, community pharmacies, um, at the time in my pharmacy. And, um, that one thing led to another and I was working with, uh, the local NHS and community pharmacies,
00:06:21:19 um, in, in, across the whole city. And that then kind of opened some doors into, um, uh, different career pathways. And I had, um, the opportunity to move, uh, for personal reasons and I moved to London and, um, then was really able to build on my career in the business, uh, elements of it working with BNHS, um, and kind of moved to working with a local pharmaceutical committee. So representing over 5,000 pharmacies, um, uh, in
00:06:56:19 England. Sorry, I've got that wrong. Can we, can we just change that?
00:07:02:05 [Speaker 1]: Yeah. Did you want to just switch up and change that last bit?
00:07:05:24 [Speaker 2]: Yeah. Uh, what I was meant to say. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
00:07:09:18 [Speaker 1]: I'll mute myself again.
00:07:14:12 [Speaker 2]: So my, um, heart was always in community pharmacy, but I wanted to build on the business elements that I blended into my career. And that really led me into working with local pharmaceutical committees and, um, a role representing, um, over 500, uh, community pharmacies in the Southeast of England. And that's really led me to the place I am today. Awesome. Thank you. I got my numbers wrong. 500,000, you
00:07:46:24 know, where it's hard to keep all that stuff in
00:07:52:13 [Speaker 1]: An interview situation. No, you're doing great. Really, really helpful. So we've got a sense of, Hey, you all, and what motivated you to get into pharmacy? Um, could you tell us a little bit more about the more like relational side of pharmacy and why it was really appealing to you to do something that worked that involve working with people? Um, cause a few people have told us, you know, I really wanted to do something that built on my maps and sort of science skills, but from shipping know, but she was talking, you know, quite clearly about wanting
00:08:23:04 to really incorporate that relational stuff. The people skills developing all of those sorts of like quote unquote, like softer skills. Um, so that's nice to sort of balance out the, like the academic rigor that's necessary, but also being a human being and being able to communicate with people from all walks of life. So if you could give us a sort of sense of, of that that'd be super helpful.
00:08:49:12 [Speaker 2]: Well, I think, you know, a key, a key part of my career has been, um, really working people and, um, I've seen, you know, firsthand the difference that pharmacists pharmacy teams make to people's lives. Um, patients' lives customers, their families in very small on large world, uh, ways, which makes it really kind of meaningful and rewarding profession to be in. And perhaps I can just share a story about when I was working in practice, um, and providing services to patients. And there was
00:09:28:05 someone who, uh, approached us for advice. He was not someone who would normally engage with traditional NHS services, such as the GP, in fact, to don't think he was registered with a GP at all. And we'd got to know him, uh, over a number of years. He came in to, to ask for advice and was it
00:09:48:22 really critical and serious point for him? And we, uh, referred him to the emergency department at the hospital a few weeks later. Um, he came back and said to my team and I, that if we hadn't have helped him that day and really, uh, persuaded him to take some action, it could have been a very different outcome for him. And these kinds of things just happen day in, day out. And I think, um, you know, that's just
00:10:22:09 an example of the way that you can impact on people's lives. I think the other thing is that, you know, many people who use the services of community pharmacies, um, uh, uh, maybe isolated or, um, vulnerable and spending time with people just on a very one-to-one personal level, having a chat can make such a huge difference and they really valued the support
00:10:49:13 that we provide. I not, um, in a patient facing role anymore, but you know, working at a larger scale that still has a, you know, an impact on the lives of patients, many patients, in fact, um, and, uh, that's really helped me motivate, you know, in the job I currently do, knowing that it has a real value across all pharmacies in England.
00:11:16:17 [Speaker 1]: That's wonderful. Thank you so much. I was just going to go into that.
00:11:19:12 [Speaker 2]: Yeah. Sorry. I just thought it fits as well. Uh, so
00:11:22:09 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, brilliant, really, really awesome story and really good example of sort of pharmacy in action really want to see that. Um, could you, um, maybe it's sort of building on this, but doing it in a slightly different way. Um, tell us what the most rewarding thing is about your career kind of to date. So if there's something that really pops really stands out for you, um, this might be something we could use towards the beginning of the film to kind of get people thinking, oh, wow. Yeah, I
00:11:52:02 really want to do this career.
00:11:55:19 [Speaker 2]: That's a really hard question to answer because there are, there are so many, um, examples of, of things that have been really meaningful. Perhaps I can,
00:12:07:16 [Speaker 1]: I think you could tell us that you could say there are so many
00:12:10:10 [Speaker 2]: Okay. And maybe I can pick, I can pick two. Yeah.
00:12:13:20 [Speaker 1]: Perfect. Okay. Yeah. I'll mute myself. Sorry.
00:12:22:09 [Speaker 2]: There are so many, uh, things and examples that really stand out as things as I reflect on my career today that I think have had, um, I've been get impact. And there's two for me, uh, that, that I'd like to share first is, um, really from a people management side of things and running a pharmacy, whether you own one or you manage a pharmacy and you're working, um, on, on the front line, you have a, you know, a team
00:12:53:05 of people working with you have pharmacy technicians, support staff, and looking back I've, you know, really helped, uh, develop a whole number of people. Um, and that's a really rewarding, uh, part of the career. And perhaps that one that doesn't always, uh, you know, come to the fall when you're thinking about a career in pharmacy, but the, that, that kind of management side, developing people, helping them flourishes has been really rewarding for me.
00:13:19:09 [Speaker 2]: Um, and, uh, an example is someone who came to the pharmacy, I was working at, um, to work as a, as a 15 year old, uh, working on it on a Saturday morning. Um, and that person was really interested in career in, um, in, in, in health and beauty, hadn't really thought about what to do, but we supported them through, uh, the college studies and that person has gone on to qualify as a, as a pharmacist, um, and is now working
00:13:50:13 in, in, um, in a GP surgery. Uh, so really nice to see right from, you know, all the way through kind of career development. I think the other example for me is, um, the th the work in terms of developing, uh, clinical services in community pharmacy. And I've been fortunate to be involved with a number of those at a local level and seeing those, uh, then, then, uh, be scaled up as good practice and, um, you know, developed through throughout
00:14:25:07 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you. Um, is there something on like a notification that just popped up? I heard something, but I'm not sure what it might've been. Um, but yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not, I'm sorry. That's all right. No worries. Um, I might ask you just that last
00:14:46:14 [Speaker 2]: One. Well, where did you hear it? Cause I didn't hear it. So
00:14:49:15 [Speaker 1]: It was just in the middle, like sort towards the beginning, middle of the last section, if you sort of give that to the things that are most rewarding for you is developing like nurturing talent in other people. Well then sort of going on to giving us the last bit. So
00:15:10:17 [Speaker 2]: I'll start again at the yeah. Developing people. One of the things that was most rewarding to me, um, throughout my career, uh, today has been working with people and also having the chance to, um, help them develop in terms of that professional and, um, personal development and a whole number of examples of probably over 50 members of staff, uh,
00:15:42:00 developed in terms of different ways. Pharmacists work with a whole team of people from pharmacy technicians, um, counter resistance dispensers, and all of them were required to undertake training and development. So I've supported people, uh, to go on and, uh, get master's degrees to develop, um, technical qualifications. And that's really rewarding to see people, um, develop. One of the examples I want to share is, um, someone who came to work in the pharmacy as a 15 year old on a, on a, on a Saturday morning
00:16:14:13 as a part-time first part-time job. And they really interested in a career in, in health or beauty, weren't quite sure what pathway to pursue, but we supported, uh, that person. And they went on to develop and, uh, develop a career in pharmacy, go and study undergraduate level, and then qualify it as a pharmacist now working in a GP practice, which was just really wonderful to see one of the things I
00:16:41:16 think I'm really proud of in terms of impact and a standout moment created my career has been having the chance to develop a community pharmacy clinical services, both well, you know, I was in practice and, and, uh, you know, developing up a practice that has now been spread to other pharmacies across many parts of England. And that's really good looking back and seeing the impact. It now has wicked.
00:17:09:05 [Speaker 1]: Thank you. That's fab. Um, and maybe we'll, we'll go from that ideas or jumping off, um, from sort of nurturing other people and nurturing talent and supporting people who will be watching this thinking. I wonder if this is for me, um, it seems really like big and overwhelming maybe. And, you know, what would you kind of say to someone, this is your chance to sort of talk directly to the viewer about why they should become a pharmacist, why they should get into pharmacy as a career, like kind of
00:17:39:19 selling that and what kind of, sort of advice and reassurance would you give them that they can, they can do it too, you know, they can follow in your footsteps.
00:17:52:15 [Speaker 2]: Well, um, the first thing I think to say is that, you know, community pharmacy is the biggest, uh, healthcare profession after doctors and nurses. Uh, so really punches its weight in terms of NHS and, you know, the wider healthcare workforce. So that means there's just loads of variety within, uh, the profession. So there's careers in industry, in government, in management, in leadership, working on the front line in a community pharmacy, in a GP surgery, in nursing homes, in all
00:18:25:11 sorts of, uh, varieties of, of, uh, practice. And some of those routes have a very structured and supportive developmental route. Some, uh, have, uh, more of a flexible approach. So I think there's really something for everyone. Um, and, and, uh, lots of variety that you can change during your career. Like I have as well. I had no idea where I might end up and I think
00:18:54:05 that is a really, um, good message for you in terms of, I think a career in this profession is really what you want to make of it. Um, and you know, the flexible roles that are part time roles or a portfolio careers, all of which you can navigate in your own way should you wish to do so.
00:19:15:12 [Speaker 1]: Ah, thank you. And looking back on your career and your route through, you know, what would you, what advice would you give to your younger self who, you know, as you say, really didn't know where you were going to end up?
00:19:30:10 [Speaker 2]: I think, um, the biggest piece of advice I can give is really keeper open mind, um, when you were studying, uh, you need to keep options open. And I think if I was entering the profession now, you know, what I would say is really your professional, my professional future would be for the taking, uh, I think for pharmacists, that if you're thinking about studying pharmacy today, when you qualify, you will be, uh, a prescriber, um, and be able to prescribe medicines. There's loads of
00:20:03:14 opportunities that will come with that and the use of technology and that the way that the, uh, profession is developing.
00:20:14:06 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you. You've just segwayed really nicely into the future of pharmacy. I was going to ask you about next. Um, could you tell us where you see the future of pharmacy and what really excites you about the way these careers are shifting and changing quite rapidly?
00:20:35:23 [Speaker 2]: Well, the future of pharmacy is, uh, developing really fast in terms of professional practice, both in terms of huge demand for pharmacists, uh, and their teams in terms of workforce. So the biggest intervention that the NHS makes, um, is around prescribing a medicine. It does that more than it does operations and surgery and other interventions. It's also the biggest spend that the NHS makes after employment costs. So
00:21:07:15 there's real focus around medicines and getting the best from those medicines and who are the experts in, in medicines and medicines uses that pharmacists, uh, and their teams. So, uh, pharmacists are increasingly a key component of healthcare. Um, and, and now working across very many different settings, there's a real clear, uh, from the NHS and government to develop, um, uh, community pharmacy practice into more clinical
00:21:39:15 services. And we're seeing some of those things being rolled out now, such as, uh, a formal community pharmacist, consultation, service, uh, all sorts of things that are developing into the future. That's looking way ahead. There's kind of the genomics service and how, how pharmacists will play a key role in that. So, uh, lots of exciting things in terms of clinical developments, but the direction of travel is really clear to me, uh,
00:22:07:11 increasingly clinical patient focus role around everything to do with medicines.
00:22:15:05 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, there's so many things going on. It's hard to pick really, but that's super helpful, I think, to inspire people and, you know, let people realize that this is a really rapidly shifting, um, option. Um, I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about how things have shifted under COVID, how COVID has impacted on pharmacy and where those changes may take us as well.
00:22:46:14 [Speaker 2]: So clearly the pandemic has changed things for lots of people, both on a temporary basis and perhaps more permanently. And I think, um, for community pharmacy in particular, uh, it's really meant that, uh, the role of the pharmacist is even more on the front line and the first port of call for all sorts of health conditions and first-line support. So throughout the pandemic and COVID, especially in the lockdowns
00:23:17:14 community, pharmacy is really the, one of the only places open is, uh, absolutely emergency and essential services with hospitals and, and, uh, supermarkets and so on. And the thing that's really cemented a role as a real key part of the NHS and the key part of really the country's, um, infrastructure. It's also meant that, uh, pharmacies and pharmacists have had to work in different ways, so greater of technology, which no doubt we
00:23:47:06 will see, continue to be used, remote consultations, telephone consultations, uh, adaptations to premises and what pharmacies look like, but also a bigger role. So, um, uh, uh, pharmacies have been involved in the COVID vaccination program, um, delivering, uh, tens of thousands of vaccines. So, uh, really, um, uh, changing the, the, the role and the
00:24:16:18 feature role that, uh, community pharmacies vaulted in terms of health care.
00:24:22:09 [Speaker 1]: Wonderful. Thank you. And I wonder if we could, um, move on a little bit and think about the, the myths surrounding pharmacy, you know, the kind of stereotypes, the things that, you know, might be frustrating as someone who's come through this profession, um, and, you know, witnessing, you know, members of the public and people just not understanding the role, what are some of those biggest mess for you? And what's the reality?
00:24:53:21 [Speaker 2]: I think, uh, one of the myths is, and perhaps the main one is that, um, pharmacist is, is someone who stands behind the counter, uh, counting medicines. Um, and, um, that, I think he's now, uh, a quite outdated view and actually, um, there's just so much more to the profession, um, than that. So in some situations there's still a counter, but mostly the pharmacist is in front of the council actually working, uh,
00:25:26:12 and talking to patients, but then there's a whole load of things that happen away from that counter, whether you're in management or working in a GP surgery or working elsewhere in a community pharmacy. Um, so I think that's the biggest thing. I'd say that the real challenge people to think beyond perhaps what the traditional view of a pharmacist has been, and to think about this much wider variety sometimes not seen, um, and really to
00:25:56:22 delve deeper.
00:25:59:22 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you. And I realize we sort of haven't, we we've touched on it a little bit, but we haven't really dug into, um, the leadership side of pharmacy and that you're coming in from a, uh, most sort of strategic view at this point in your career, more of a leadership position. Could you tell us a little bit about what that entails and why it's important as well?
00:26:30:02 [Speaker 2]: So, yes, my role, um, involves, uh, working in a national organization for pharmacy. So leading the development of the NHS side of community pharmacy and really important because, um, it's really important for the future of, of, uh, the community pharmacy sector and the direction it takes. Um, but also in terms of supporting our, uh, pharmacy colleagues, um, in their practice, as things develop and as things change
00:27:02:14 and also the impact that that has on patients. So it's quite a different role from where I started off in my career, but that has been really helpful to have worked on the front line as well, and understand, uh, about the role to be able to apply to that now, in my role, working, um, across many different organizations, trying to develop the, uh, sector even further.
00:27:30:01 [Speaker 1]: Great. And can you tell us what good leadership looks like?
00:27:37:09 [Speaker 2]: So I think there's, um, many elements to, uh, leadership, but to pick a few examples, I think one is having, uh, having a vision about where you want to be and how you, um, might get there. Uh, another really important one for me is about, um, really being open, um, to ideas, honest with the people, um, that you're working with and really
00:28:11:19 taking a broad and strategic view of how problems are approached, how challenges are solved and, um, how, uh, you can, you can make progress. Um, but there's, there's many aspects to leadership. Some, um, are very small as well. And some of the small differences you can make, uh, are also
00:28:35:07 really important as well as those, um, big, big things.
00:28:42:10 [Speaker 1]: Thank you. And I'm just thinking maybe to finish up, um, as we move towards the end, I'm aware of time. Um, if you could tell us maybe something that we could lead the film with, which could be something about, um, you know, how passionate you are about pharmacy, about it being just such a fantastic career choice and listing some of the reasons why, um, or telling us about why you're proud to be doing the job you're doing.
00:29:14:03 So just sort of something that gives us a sense of like the scale and the possibility, um, of coming into a profession like this. I don't know if there's anything sort of off the top of your head that that is a biggie, but you should put like a big bold statement at the beginning of a film or towards the beginning that just says like, pharmacy's is incredible career. It's diverse. It's like that kind of a big punch of a beginning for want of
00:29:44:00 a better word. Thank you.
00:29:50:03 [Speaker 2]: Well, pharmacy is a really incredible career because it offers just so much. So, uh, diversity and variety in terms of the different areas you can work in, but also the opportunities to really develop as a person and a professional. Uh, this is a profession really going somewhere in terms of its clinical development and the role it's going to play in, in the NHS and in healthcare. And it can really make a
00:30:20:07 difference to the lives of people. So just such a really meaningful career.
00:30:26:19 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. And what is the biggest thing your career has taught you to date? Is there something that just really stands out as like, whoa, this is the big thing that has like taught me an awesome lesson about life, about myself. Um, let me just think about that one. It's another toughie, but it's just like, again, another sort of big, bold
00:30:52:18 opener to this kind of a film. Hang on, hang on.
00:31:04:23 [Speaker 2]: Uh, let me think. Um, um, I'm not normally last words, but this one's quite a tricky one. Um, so, uh,
00:31:30:00 [Speaker 1]: I mean, you've spoke about lots of things, but I wanted like something like, you know, pharmacy's really taught me about the value of relationships in healthcare.
00:31:40:15 [Speaker 2]: Let me talk about relational stuff as well. Let me talk about that.
00:31:48:00 [Speaker 1]: I'll meet myself. Okay.
00:31:51:23 [Speaker 2]: I think my career in pharmacy so far, and I'm always learning is, is really taught me about the value of relationships, uh, at work, um, and with patients. So I think they are the really important bedrock of, of, um, of anyone's career. Uh, but, but relationships with patients are really important and the difference that you can make, um, by which through those relationships, um, really shouldn't be underestimated,
00:32:24:02 but also, you know, good relationships, um, elsewhere with colleagues and, um, or the, of the people in your career, just really important part of, of, um, getting, getting work done is the basis of so many, uh, uh, the basis of making progress in so many areas.
00:32:48:23 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Cool. Thank you. Is there anything else that you wanted to tell us about?
00:32:53:07 [Speaker 2]: I think we've covered pretty much everything, really. Um,
00:32:57:05 [Speaker 1]: Thing that came to mind was the fact that you and shipping have been like totally instrumental in bringing this project to light. Do you want to talk about, you know, you're almost giving us the context for why we're all here, um, is that sort of project in particular about the projects about the fact that, you know, you really wanted to, to create?
00:33:21:00 [Speaker 2]: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, that's good. I hadn't thought about, um, okay. It's been really good to be part of this project to highlight, um, farmers' careers and I've had a very diverse, um, career so far and I'm only just starting. So, uh, I really wanted it to be able to share that through this project to highlight the many different aspects and really hope it inspires, um, future generation of people to really think
00:33:53:19 about a career in this profession.
00:33:59:08 [Speaker 1]: Awesome. Thank you. Is there anything else we should say about the context for how it came about or
00:34:06:16 [Speaker 2]: No, that's fine. Yeah, I'm sure she'd be in there. We'll cover that.
00:34:11:04 [Speaker 1]: Well, it's wonderful. It's like you say so much for your time. I'm going to bring my little video back so I can see it again.
00:34:19:16 [Speaker 2]: Okay, good. So hopefully you've got enough to work with her,
00:34:23:10 [Speaker 1]: Correct. Good chunk of the stuff. We'll certainly send you the edits to them before it all goes and get sort of the final sign off. Yeah. Um, is there anything else you wanted to ask us? I don't
00:34:36:17 [Speaker 2]: Think so. I got, um, Jake I've signed, I've done a signed form. I just need to scan it in this afternoon and send it back to our perfect after the concert. And so I think that's the only thing outstanding for me, I think.
00:34:48:02 [Speaker 1]: Wonderful. And did you want to do some stuff with the visual, um, journaling with any kind of shots of you at work? 00:34:56:07 [Speaker 2]: Um, well the shots, my work is not very exciting because I'm, um, I'm always working from home, but we could maybe do something with the office one day or something like that. I am going in a bit, if that would be helpful. That would, yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's just any images of, you know, a desk working on the phone. It just, you can look, yeah, we can do that, but yeah, we'll put those in so we can see you in. Yep. Sounds good. Thank you so, so much.