00:00:07:02 [Speaker 1]: Uh, okay, so fun questions. I don't want to out lots of stuff.  

00:00:16:12 [Speaker 2]: I don't mind wherever you want me to say. I love potatoes. Yeah. I will say that. I think you're going to have a lot of, lots of, we read, we watching this one,  

00:00:31:14 [Speaker 1]: Ask you to travel, to get it back  

00:00:34:20 [Speaker 2]: Emphasis on trying  

00:00:46:20 [Speaker 1]: At the Monday nights. Um, I wanted tell me pharmacy pharmacy, and they see if that ends.  

00:01:02:10 [Speaker 2]: So if you were to ask me, when I first started off, um, looking into just a career in pharmacy, this was when I was in school. If you said a community pharmacist, I would have said, okay, that's someone who is in a community, pharmacy prescription comes in and they are dispensing the medications. Now, community pharmacy, for example, the role is evolving so much. A lot of community pharmacists are becoming independent prescribers. This gives them the authority to actually prescribe medications, which in the past and your doctor would have been 

00:01:31:17 able to do. I think it's so, it's so good. How the role of the pharmacist is evolving. Pharmacists are being given more responsibility. They're given, they're being trained to have more roles. So yeah, it's a lot of pharmacists, especially community pharmacists are being encouraged to become independent prescribers or incenter your hair. It's so common to hear this pharmacist is an independent prescriber, and it's just amazing 

00:02:02:01 that pharmacists are being given that opportunity to become independent prescribers because they all capable. They are capable of making those decisions for patients as a doctor would as well. So it's just really good that they have been given that opportunity.  

00:02:17:16 [Speaker 1]: We've actually been in cost per our policy. That's so areas for what kind of about that.  

00:02:30:10 [Speaker 2]: What really excites me is how you can go from studying with people at university. And then just hearing about all the different roles that they're doing. Like there are people working in GP pharmacies, there are people working in hospital pharmacies. There are people working for the army. For example, there's people working in prison pharmacies. The, the role is just evolving and developing. And you're hearing of pharmacists in so many different environments in, in a hospice in care homes. So many different roles a pharmacist can take and the list 

00:03:04:05 is just, honestly, it's just growing. And I think it's just, there is more recognition of the skills that our pharmacist has. And I think it's great that pharmacists are being recognized more and they're given, they're been given the opportunity to actually take on these roles and responsibilities.  

00:03:28:06 [Speaker 1]: Yes. Yeah.  

00:03:33:01 [Speaker 2]: So I remember when I, when I was studying, um, pharmacy at university, one of my lectures actually says, said, uh, very early on, he was like, you will all be the masters of medicine. And the reason he actually said that was because to do pharmacy. Um, you actually complete a masters in pharmacy. So before many moons ago, it used to be a bachelor's in pharmacy, but then it developed into an M farm, which is a master's in pharmacy. So when he actually said, you, you are all going to be masters in pharmacy, you are the master of medicines. I was actually 

00:04:05:22 told this and I thought, you know what? It really highlighted to me the importance of my role because doctors come to you, nurses come to you because you, you have studied the medicines, you've studied the effects they have on the body. You've studied the interactions between different medications. So that is why essentially you are a master of medicine. And I think it's amazing. It definitely is something that really stuck with me. The fact that years, years have gone by. And I still remember the person 

00:04:33:07 who actually said that to me. So I think it was a really nice thing to be told. And he just,  

00:04:40:02 [Speaker 1]: Hey, you know, and I would not no way, no way.  

00:04:48:09 [Speaker 2]: Oh my God. That would be awful. Can you imagine I would not have let that be on the internet.  

00:04:54:16 [Speaker 1]: Okay.  

00:04:55:19 [Speaker 2]: Hi everyone. I'm Vienna. I'm a graduate teaching. Wait, what am I saying? What my professional role is. Okay.  

00:05:05:05 [Speaker 1]: Okay.  

00:05:15:19 [Speaker 2]: Never been straightened to, but mine, I chucked a glass. I radio air when I was a kid living life on edge and the glass went in. I've actually got a Mark. Yeah.  

00:05:25:02 [Speaker 1]: Maybe I'll  

00:05:26:12 [Speaker 2]: With this hand. I'm more confident with this hand. Yeah, there we go. Okay. I find a way is like really personal. Like it just, it's more inviting Polite. Okay. Hi everyone. I'm Dina. I'm a graduate teaching assistant and I'm also a registered pharmacist with the GPAC  

00:05:50:05 [Speaker 1]: Pretty bad.  

00:05:52:05 [Speaker 2]: Oh gosh. Okay. Do I have to say the whole thing again? Or you can just edit it to other things.  

00:06:01:02 [Speaker 1]: Me.  

00:06:02:20 [Speaker 2]: Do you want me to say the whole thing again, along with I pass the exams?  

00:06:06:16 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, it would be good. I just passed my exam. I've just recently qualified, found out that I passed my preregistration exam, which is fantastic. You know, I need to alter the order actually. Let me just, okay. Final take. So that's what I am graduate teaching assistant along with a fully qualified pharmacist. 

00:00:02:17 [Speaker 1]: It's  

00:00:08:03 [Speaker 2]: Okay. So what I do is, um, I'm a graduate teaching assistant, which basically means that I am pursuing a full-time PhD in pharmacy. And I also have a part-time teaching role at a university. Um, a PhD is basically, um, an independent research project and I'm currently looking at resilience amongst undergraduate pharmacy students. And then the teaching side of it basically involves me developing and delivering teaching material for pharmacy undergraduate students and facilitating 

00:00:38:14 teaching activities such as workshops and practical classes. Um, so if I've had experience in teaching ethics, um, I don't know what you're going to cut off.  

00:00:51:05 [Speaker 1]: What was it? Is that the one that you said to me before? Like they want to do  

00:00:58:03 [Speaker 2]: Kind of not feeling the pressure? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Let me just ignore that I'm being recorded and I'm just talking to you. Um, so ethics forms the basis source. So it's really getting taught right from the get-go so that I basically did it,  

00:01:18:16 [Speaker 1]: Sorry, quiet. I do other people's kids that I, that, but I'm fine.  

00:01:41:00 [Speaker 2]: So I think, like you said, I'm, I'm younger than a lot of people that may be teaching. Um, I think what is really good is that my knowledge of doing like an M farm degree is really fresh. And because I'm actually teaching at the university, I graduated from, I know exactly what the students have been through the assignments. They're sitting the exams, they're doing the workshops and lectures that they've done. So it really helps because I can really put myself in their shoes that you didn't 

00:02:10:06 like, look, these are the steps that you need to take, try it out, have this plan in case and see how you go. But it definitely does make a difference because I've seen a student go from feeling very overwhelmed and stressed and to adjunct you so much for your time. Well, thank you for explaining that it's really helped me. It's just, it's an amazing feeling that being able to help people  

00:02:34:08 [Speaker 1]: Come on, do you have them?  

00:02:36:06 [Speaker 2]: What kind of sorry? Um, how do I make it fun? I just speak to them like they are other people, obviously you speak to people like, okay, how am I, how do I word this? I don't obviously there's a level of level of professionalism that you have. I am teaching. They are students, but just speaking to them on the same level, try and I don't know how to put this into words.  

00:03:00:13 [Speaker 1]: Bye.  

00:03:03:08 [Speaker 2]: Definitely not. I am completely against her. Obviously there needs to be that level of like respect and be comfortable to ask any questions. And I ensure that they feel comfortable to ask anything that they want. And I tell them that no question is silly. And the more questions you ask the better. And I really facilitate discussions between myself and the students and between the students themselves. So I just create that kind of open environment, that comfortable environment that they feel, they feel like they can trust me and everyone around them 

00:03:32:07 pretty much.  

00:03:39:02 [Speaker 1]: Gotcha. Okay.  

00:03:45:04 [Speaker 2]: This is me and my meetings,  

00:03:53:00 [Speaker 1]: But that's a reward that we can get people to talk about so much in healthcare.  

00:03:59:04 [Speaker 2]: So in terms of one of the most rewarding moments of my journey, um, in my current role, this is just going to be a repeat. Is that fine?  

00:04:08:06 [Speaker 1]: We don't mind it because then we have options.  

00:04:11:03 [Speaker 2]: Okay, fine. So, Oh, I'll give you two examples, right? Okay. So one of the most rewarding moments of my journey was when I was practicing as a farm, as a provision new registered pharmacist, um, that's such a line of, it's not in my pre-reg, I'll just  

00:04:29:10 [Speaker 1]: Take  

00:04:29:16 [Speaker 2]: To one of the most rewarding moments of my journey was when I was actually completing my pre-registration in a community pharmacy. So a patient actually ran out of their medications. They were very concerned. They were very worried and they called, they called the pharmacy up. I happened to pick up the phone. I could hear they were, they were really anxious about this and they just didn't know what to do. And I showed them to just leave it in my hand, I'll get it sorted by midday because that is when they basically needed to take their medication. And that was kind of the call point. I showed them it would get sorted and I 

00:05:01:18 took down their contact details, everything like that, long story short, essentially, I was able to get this patient, their medication through speaking to the GP, then speaking to the patient, confirming everything. And obviously the patient had their medications delivered and it was fine. That was it. I don't know her name, but she really helped me out. I was running out of my medications and she reassured me that she'd get it sorted. And I got my delivery of medication. She's a very good girl. She 

00:05:28:12 was so helpful. So nice. This patient didn't know I was there. He had no other, uh, young pets and he was an older gentleman. And he came in just to tell my manager how I helped him. It can really meant a lot to him. And I think that was one of the nicest feelings ever that I could just help someone in that way. And it wasn't even in autonomy, you might not, it sounds so simple, but it means so much to patients.  

00:05:52:18 [Speaker 1]: Hmm,  

00:05:57:07 [Speaker 2]: Exactly. Exactly. And as a firsthand experience, that's  

00:06:02:04 [Speaker 1]: Different. I think patients.  

00:06:09:11 [Speaker 2]: So yeah, I, I think the relationship that, um, a pharmacist can have, especially in somewhere like a community pharmacy to a pharmacy professional, and it's just amazing, honestly. So I stopped with these facial expressions. I think they're going to ruin things. Aren't they?  

00:06:43:05 [Speaker 1]: Could you tell me more about that? Maybe how scales change as a person or depends upon what you've been able to keep the career pharmacy  

00:06:58:11 [Speaker 2]: In terms of the, in spoken to so many people engaged, because I've just spoken to so many people in a variety of settings coming from so many different backgrounds, it's just helped me to also adapt to new environments. Um, in terms of the role as a graduate teaching assistant, because I'm pursuing a full-time PhD, I've learned a lot about research skills now, although this is very applicable to completing a PhD, it's also really important as a pharmacy professionals because patients will come to you to ask your advice on. For example, see 

00:07:29:08 often the pharmacist is usually the main port of call for the other staff members. So having that role and having the skills and the knowledge to be able to advise your colleagues and be able to direct them in the right place. It's not necessarily the first port of call. If someone, if one of the staff members in the pharmacy is unsure of what to do. So ensuring that you have the communication skills and you're an approachable person is important because the last thing you want is your staff to be scared to ask 

00:07:57:09 you questions.  

00:08:01:01 [Speaker 1]: I don't know where I'm going with this. It was not something I wanted to teach. I think one of the things that I think puts people off, especially the way people are managed and supervised. I don't 

00:08:34:14 want to challenge.  

00:08:37:07 [Speaker 2]: I think it is in every place that you go. There will obviously be a hierarchal thing. Professionals are always willing to help you out there. There's always courses out there, run by other pharmacists who just want to kind of help people to develop their skills. They want to help other healthcare professionals, other pharmacy professionals. There's a lot of that interdisciplinary learning as well. I think it's healthcare is such a great place to be. And I think especially with how technology is evolving and so many things are also moving online. It's just making more people accessible at different times. It's not a matter of, I have to, you 

00:09:08:10 have to go to a meeting in person. You can attend things online. It's just making it easier, more accessible.  

00:09:16:17 [Speaker 1]: Young people are chosen to do talk. Why did I choose the different, because we need more of them to do that  

00:09:24:10 [Speaker 2]: Down to helping patients and the public. And I think for someone to have that drive to want to help people, that's what really motivates them to pursue a career in pharmacy. Do you want me to carry it? Okay. Okay. Okay. Cool.  

00:09:40:17 [Speaker 1]: I  

00:09:41:00 [Speaker 2]: Mean, I did have some sure I had something. There is something, gosh, you would think I'd remember my own words. Right? Gosh, it's so bad. Um, I know one of the, I can't, I can just go with it. I can just go with it. So I wash my eyes. Okay. You can just see it as a blinking light, the public. I mean, they breathe too, right? Okay. So the public might be surprised how much of a difference a pharmacist can make to their 

00:10:11:06 care and the various sectors that pharmacists actually have a role in. I think during times when GP surgeries, when seeing patients and interactions with other healthcare professionals was really limited community. The question is what do people not seeing the work happening in pharmacy? Okay. Do you want me to come on for that?  

00:10:29:14 [Speaker 1]: Wow. You touched on the promise that the high street what's next.  

00:10:39:02 [Speaker 2]: So yeah, during, during the COVID-19 pandemic pandemic, everything was closed. Literally on the new date, they said everything is closed apart from your local community pharmacy because obviously people needed their medications. And I think that really did highlight how important it is to have a community pharmacy and the role of a community pharmacist. It was a healthcare professional that was readily accessible to people requiring no appointment, no bookings. When other it's someone they could actually interact with a real life person. Because 

00:11:08:10 during the real difficult times of the pandemic, you couldn't just see your doctor. It was an online, it was an online consultation. It was a phone consultation, but having a community pharmacist, you could actually go in and speak to someone. And there are some things that you just can't, you can't cover through a phone consultation. You can't cover through a video call. People were in with rushes and all those kinds of things that without seeing it, you wouldn't have been able to determine what it was. And for a lot of people say, for example, we had a lot of elderly patients. They 

00:11:39:15 don't have access to video. Calling features. Some of them just about have a mobile phone and they find that difficult to use, but they find it easier to walk into their local community pharmacy. So,  

00:11:50:08 [Speaker 1]: Well, just the amount of people, but different people coming in different backgrounds, different problems, different economic status. I don't see it the same.  

00:12:01:12 [Speaker 2]: So it's, it's really important as, and again, pharmacy really does highlight the importance of treating everyone equally. And, yeah, sorry.  

00:12:21:03 [Speaker 1]: Sorry. If I said the kind of questions. Okay.  

00:12:34:02 [Speaker 2]: Oh, yay. You're going to have a lot of editing. It's a bonus  

00:12:43:03 [Speaker 1]: When it speaks to periods, because we can tell you are going to be able to bridge pharmacy for a second and what they might send to my side.  

00:12:59:06 [Speaker 2]: I think for a lot of young people, they've been through a lot. Let's be very honest. Young people have had it hard. They've had online teaching. Some of them have, have just been out of teaching. Some of them have gone through so many life experiences that young people just shouldn't have to go through. I remember when I was at school, all I had to think about was my studies. Quite literally, that was it. But these people have these kids. They're still kids at the end of the day, they've been through so much. And I feel like,  

00:13:26:10 [Speaker 1]: Where am I  

00:13:26:14 [Speaker 2]: Going to get there someday, somewhere down to the kids. How do I walk if I was speaking to younger people, I think no matter who you speak to, if you were to say to someone, would you want to make a difference? If I told you today that you could make a difference to someone's life? Is that something you'd want to do? I would say a lot of people would say yes, they would only say yes to that question. So I feel like making young people aware of the different roles that they can take just by pursuing a pharmacy degree would really just, what am I saying? I 

00:14:00:14 can't think of one thing.  

00:14:04:00 [Speaker 1]: Okay.  

00:14:09:12 [Speaker 2]: I was their age a long time ago. I ended up, I don't know how other people feel. They're like 10 years older than me down with the company,  

00:14:16:18 [Speaker 1]: This January outcomes. But that's pretty broad.  

00:14:30:06 [Speaker 2]: I don't know why I'm struggling with this so much. I really don't want, what does that mean?  

00:14:41:10 [Speaker 1]: It, it it's like they used to go back.  

00:14:45:02 [Speaker 2]: Yeah. I just, because I know there is a, there is a way to answer this. I just can't articulate it. Could you maybe ask the question again?  

00:14:54:12 [Speaker 1]: So speaking to stuff, make a difference.  

00:15:05:15 [Speaker 2]: I should really sending this. This is the whole point.  

00:15:11:10 [Speaker 1]: Just stop by the pharmacy. Did they? They're not going to get, they go into a drive by or football.  

00:15:25:16 [Speaker 2]: It just goes back to the care. Being able to make a difference to someone's life, whether it's in a community setting, whether it's in a hospital setting, the fundamental of it is I think I can. I'm just going to sound like I'm repeating myself. It's fine. If, if young people were aware that they could make a difference to someone's life, if, if they were told, if they were asked, would you want to make like, we're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to, we're going to get to it. So we're going to get to it. I think young people today would 

00:15:55:04 love to make it. If they were informed of the various roles that doing a pharmacy to off to pursue your pharmacy degree, there are so many opportunities. Young people have, they could work in a community pharmacy or hospital pharmacy. So there's, so technology is evolving. Everything is developing so much. The world of healthcare is growing at a rapid pace. And the role of a pharmacist is just evolving more responsibilities being given 

00:16:22:06 to pharmacists more. Isn't it.  

00:16:28:12 [Speaker 1]: Okay. What does that  

00:16:35:16 [Speaker 2]: Make a D making a difference is, is just so it's just helping one student out. They must, they might've had a question that they'd be that they're so worried to ask, but me being them and Provo and creating an open environment for them to ask that question, I've made a difference to their learning experience. I've answered a question that they might've been so confused about, but they have felt comfortable to ask me and I've clarified that for them. So I've made a difference to that student learning experience in terms of being a healthcare professional, like the 

00:17:09:04 STEM, anything you can do with that in terms of being a healthcare professional, just having the skills to be able to provide services for patients. For example, if a patient is running out their medication, they have the trust in you as a pharmacist to then liaise with the doctor, liaise with the patient and get their medicines to them. Again, for them running out of their medication is the worst thing in the 

00:17:35:00 world. They are so worried. They think they're never going to get their medication. They're going to miss their doses. And for some people based on like the health problems that they have, this is a massive, massive problem. And it can have detrimental effects on their life. But just from you being able to liaise with the doctor and actually get that sorted out for them, you have, you're going to have fun editing this. You mentioned a quote about, you know, you've made one of the, I've said this isn't about 

00:18:03:04 the worries. One of the worries. I'm just going to take a look.  

00:18:07:16 [Speaker 1]: Oh goodness.  

00:18:16:17 [Speaker 2]: While I just found out things and I lost me and should have afforded that one. Right. Um,  

00:18:24:04 [Speaker 1]: Right. Um, yep. Okay.  

00:18:29:12 [Speaker 2]: So as a healthcare professional, something as simple as a patient running out of them, it's not as simple, but by having that interaction with the patient, with them coming and speaking to you and putting that trust in you to solve this problem for them, you've actually solved one of the biggest worries of their day. And that for me is another way of making a difference to people.  

00:18:52:13 [Speaker 1]: But yeah, yeah, Since starting my pharmacy career, I'm, I've really surprised myself in what I've been able to accomplish. So I've been able to do a pharmacy 

00:19:22:12 degree from that. I've learnt so many skills, communication skills, interpersonal skills, practical skills, and I've just been able to just, I'm more I've achieved. The, I wouldn't have had all of these opportunities and doing the pharmacy degree, provided me with all these skills, being able to speak in front of people, being able to speak to patients, having the practical skills, to complete tasks that are expected from any job. Well, I would have never believed them, but I'm here now and I'm doing it. 

00:19:51:14 And I genuinely can put a lot of that down to the skills I gained from completing a pharmacy degree, because that is what really set me up to then develop my career and develop for a lot of people. They tend to stay in their comfort zones. And unless you are kind of encouraged to self-develop and learn more, you won't actually push yourself out of that box. It does take a lot of self motivation, but unless you have things to prompt, you like completing a pharmacy degree, you're encouraged to learn more read, 

00:20:23:05 further attend courses, attend conferences from that. Although it was wasn't, it was encouraged. 

00:00:00:07 [Speaker 1]: I know, sorry. I just realized Okay. Yeah. Um, public perception of pharmacies are really interesting one, 

00:00:37:19 I think because we, we don't have a huge presence in television, and I think a lot of people end up getting their perceptions of medical professions from TV. So I think we're always this, a bit of a Nygma where either the people in the white coat that ended up killing someone on a TV set, because we've taken the poisons from the pharmacy and given it to 

00:01:02:18 someone, or I think we're very much seen maybe as the public, by the public as shopkeepers, you know? So, um, I normally say to people they're happier to wait for their big Mac, uh, at the fast-food chin, um, where they're not happy to wait for their medicines that, you know, are, are potentially lifesaving. So we're very much seen sometimes as this kind of just picking 

00:01:30:20 the, a books off the shelf and, uh, Dustin thawing and then haunted the diets. And it's like, it's a real disconnect around what we actually do as pharmacists, um, and what the public sees. So I think it would be great if we could have some kind of, you know, character within one of the soaps that just really demonstrates the true benefits of a pharmacist. Cause we 

00:01:56:18 do have true benefits, which I hope this little series of, um, videos will, will get people to start to think of what really a pharmacist does.  

00:02:19:15 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, definitely. Um, that, that white coat image, I think very much still sticks in the mind of a lot of people. So, uh, we haven't kind of broken away from that yet. Um Yeah. And maybe it is because we aren't, um, as extrovert, we're probably 

00:02:49:19 very much behind the scenes, you know, where that last step between the patient, um, having been prescribed the medicines by the doctor, possibly informed about water, what it's for and how to use it, and then the patient actually getting their hands on it. So we are very much seen in the supply function and I suppose really that's what we've done, you know, quite a lot for the public over the last, maybe 10, 20 years or more, um, maybe much 

00:03:21:22 more in the Victorian times. And before we were seeing more around the putting things together, you know, people would have seen us in the back compounding or supposedly juries and our partners and our potions, um, and not kind of, I think, brought more magic to it. We're knowing it really is, you know, there's the books of medicines, you know, you'll have patients say to you, I can see it there. You know, why don't you just grab it off 

00:03:48:20 the shelf and give it to me? And it's like, well, it's a great that more than that, you know, because we're not compounding at anymore, but the clinical checks are still, still need to be there. We still need to make sure that it's appropriate alongside everything else that the patients get on.  

00:04:24:23 [Speaker 1]: I always knew I wanted to go into health care. Um, in my grammar school, you were either kind of in the medicine guideline or you were doing law and they were the kind of two areas that we were, I suppose, introduced to. And kind of, that was, that was, seemed to be what you should go into. And I wasn't a hundred percent sure I knew I wanted to do something to help people. Um, I knew it probably wasn't great at 

00:04:55:04 touching people, um, um, um, understanding maybe some of the physical things that were going on with people. So I thought, um, I would like to do healthcare, but I just didn't know what branch, so it wasn't until I went to Israel and I had a year, right. And I worked in a hospice. So this hospice was a multi-faith hospice that was run by an order of French nuns. Um, and I got to go down into the pharmacy. So when we had to give 

00:05:25:18 medicines to the patients, you know, I was able to go door and I seen these large gallon bottles of cough medicines, or, you know, big bowls of pills that people were dispensing idol for making up the medicines. And, and that's really where I suppose I kind of got the, the desire to do something that would help people maybe, uh, minimize their symptoms or really kind of make them much more comfortable in what was the end of life for the 

00:05:54:21 patients that I was looking after. So when I came back, I kind of investigated it a bit more. Um, and I know I have this, uh, crazy thing where I go to another country and I love to look at the pharmacy because it's also white in Europe, they're normally kind of white and clinical and it's like kind of, I sport the medicines that I know from, you know, back home. So yeah, I just liked the environment. It's got a nice feel to it, I 

00:06:22:11 think.  

00:06:35:25 [Speaker 1]: Well, I suppose it's that kind of, um, medicines or something. I think we've all had experience. So through our whole lives, you probably remember as a child, when you had an antibiotic that banana flavored medicine, you know, that tasted a bit yucky, but maybe tested, but nice. And when you were feeling really poorly taking that and then coming through and feeling better. So I think we've all had experience of 

00:07:05:20 medicines. I think it's something that's probably common for everybody. I don't think there's a person on the planet who hasn't taken a medicine of sorts. So for me, it was kind of, I could see the benefits that it could give. You could, you can almost, uh, certainly for the guys that were in the hospice who were maybe in quite a lot of pain or discomfort, you know, our time spent with them. So the physical contact in human contact was really important, but you could also actually see anyone who was in acute 

00:07:36:12 pain, the medicine given them that relief. And it was just really great to be part of that, to kind of start to know, well, why does not give the relief? You know, what else might not cause Hyde, we help patients get better and manage symptoms? Well, if I think like to my, um, current practice, so coming even further 

00:08:17:03 forward, you know, 20 odd years, um, and on my day to day practice, I know I realized that actually a big part of pharmacy is not the provision of medicines because you can handle it medicines, you know, uh, in many 

00:08:33:14 different countries. So I've with, uh, colleagues from Zambia, you know, where we have, um, in rural areas, these dispensaries that don't have pharmacists, you know, we have people that are trained up to handout medicine. So the medicine is actually only one band, but knowing, I realized my practice is so much more than hand handing the medicine. It's about how you communicate with someone. So they understand how to take the medicine, the benefit of the medicine actually truly understanding what's 

00:09:04:08 wrong with them. So, you know, the medicine is only one part or pharmacy, the communication and connecting with your patients and getting them to understand what they need to do with the medicine, because you can have a medicine that's amazing, you know, it's gone through lots of clinical trials, you know, what's really great for a condition, but if the patient doesn't take it in the right way or the intended way that medicine is of no 

00:09:32:22 benefit, cause it might sit in their cupboard or they might undertake it or, you know, uh, use it, uh, in overdose or, or so it could actually end up causing more issues for the patient.  

00:09:46:14 [Speaker 1]: So it's really about trying to get the patient educated around their medicines and about them kind of understanding their own condition so that they can appreciate the benefits of the medicine. So for me, like I suppose the big thing now is being able to communicate with people and actually pharmacies even sometimes about non-pharmacological interventions. So sometimes actually not giving someone a medicine is actually better than giving someone a medicine. So although we fix, uh, as 

00:10:20:00 pharmacists kind of focus on the medicines per se, actually it's much broader than that. And it's much more holistic approach knowing. Yeah. And I'm actually, um, that is the real beauty of pharmacy, you know, 

00:10:47:12 optimizing treatment and really optimizing treatment can be ensuring patients don't have that pill burden because if you speak to older people who have lots of, we call it poly-pharmacy. So it's where ma PA patients have the definition varies slightly, but it's normally four or more medicines while a lot of older people do. And it becomes so embedded in the, um, day to day routine that actually, you know, you're moving from one 

00:11:18:00 pill administration to the next to the next. And actually that is what becomes predominant in the life. Well actually that's not what we should be doing. You know, quality of life is PowerPoint and the medicine should just be in the background supplementing or helping to promote good quality of life. So, um, yeah, medicines optimization, deep prescribing is a huge part 

00:11:41:09 of being a pharmacist and ensuring patients get the best out of their meds.  

00:11:54:12 [Speaker 1]: Yeah. So, um, I'm lucky. Um, and kind of like a lot of pharmacists I've moved into what we call like a portfolio range of working. So we have more than one role within the world of pharmacy. So I've got, um, multiple facets of my pharmacy career with my main role being educating the next generation of pharmacists. So I'm really lucky to have that role with our undergraduate pharmacists, helping them, facilitating 

00:12:28:05 them to really maximize the room, potential, getting them to understand all the different facets of pharmacy and how they can, um, really work to use their, it Nant, um, skills that they come with, but also to develop those professional attributes and skills so that they can become a safe and effective pharmacist. Um, I also do post-graduate work around prescribing. 

00:12:56:12 So I have the pleasure of taking pharmacists who are already qualified and helping them to get to the role of the prescriber, which really just enhances their role, enables them to really help at the point of which the patient needs it, as opposed to saying, well, I think you need this, but I can't do that for you have to refer you on. So it really helps to build that role. And then I have the pleasure of, um, still working in community pharmacy, um, every week, only five hours mind 

00:13:27:03 you, but every week and, uh, getting to work with patients and to take all of that knowledge and skills. Cause I learned from the students themselves, there's nothing better than setting in on an assessment and hearing how someone comes across and how they really show empathy to a patient. And that helps me on my day to day practice. So I'm this eternal student I'm always learning, always bring a new things to my own practice, which makes 

00:13:54:04 it actually really quite refreshing. And then I've got other bits to my rule where, um, I will volunteer or I will, um, do some consultancy around drugs and sports. So I've had the pleasure of working in, um, the athletes village at the London 2012 Olympic games. So for me, the world of pharmacy has just kind of opened many doors, so many avenues to me that I've really 

00:14:21:23 kind of grabbed them with two hands and I'm really, um, try to develop, uh, areas that I find interesting.  

00:14:41:08 [Speaker 1]: Yeah. I, I really feel like I have, you know, um, I wouldn't say that's because I'm this amazing pharmacist it's because I really enjoy new challenges. I enjoy new environments and pharmacy enables me to kind of seek out those new challenges enables me to look for those new, um, things. So one of my bosses says I always like new shiny things. 

00:15:10:07 I'm, I'm the kind of person that's always seeking. What's the next new thing. Um, so I've had the pleasure of going to Australia to, um, collaborate with colleagues at Queensland university around projects, looking up prescribing and how we, um, educate prescribers. And so I gave a, a presentation when I was in Brisbane. So, you know, got to travel to Australia, which was just amazing. Um, I've also worked with colleagues in 

00:15:43:21 Zambia, uh, had the opportunity to go there. Unfortunately I wasn't available to go there. Um, so one of my colleagues went instead, but you know, to learn from other pharmacists globally. And I think that's really important, you know, uh, global pharmacy is a really great arena to get involved in and there are lots of ways for pharmacists to, to, uh, network internationally with other 

00:16:10:25 pharmacists, because we've got a lot of the same things, a lot of the same challenges and actually we're all at slightly different stages of the process and we're able to really, um, support and guide and help each other, I suppose. So it, it becomes a wider family. You know, we talk about pharmacy within the UK being the small little, um, network of, of, of 

00:16:38:13 people, but actually it's a, it's an international network of people and, and you can really, um, link up with anyone that has maybe the same kind of passion issue. So recently I've just been speaking to a colleague in America, who's also interested in drugs and sport, and that was possible through platforms like LinkedIn, you know, just reaching out, getting people to, um, understand where you're coming from and other things that 

00:17:10:18 I've done because, um, I'm interested in music.  

00:17:13:11 [Speaker 1]: I can't play anything. I can't claim that I have, uh, some musical progress. I, I just enjoy listening to me. It's like, um, I realized that, uh, there was an opportunity to volunteer for Glastonbury. So I just put myself out there, put an application in and managed to go to Gasper in 2005. And it was phenomenal. It was just amazing. Being able to be part of the medical services to support what really becomes like a small 

00:17:44:10 time, I suppose, of people in a field, a very muddy field, but then a field, you know, who still need, um, pharmaceutical support. So yeah, it was, it was great. Plus we got the pleasure of having porcelain toilets that flushed. So, you know, people going to go to a festival, that's the way to go  

00:18:10:19 [Speaker 2]: Was the highlight  

00:18:28:19 [Speaker 1]: Pharmacy's been evolving now, anything that's in the NHS generally takes a while for it to kick in. So we always talk about, Oh, this has recently happened in the NHS. And we actually are referring to things that happened, maybe a decade or a couple of decades ago. It can take a while, but aren't cheap. Pharmacy is picking up a Pierce. Um, we are the third largest group within Nana chest behind, um, doctors and nurses. So we have a, uh, a critical mass. We are certainly as a profession we're 

00:19:02:20 developing, we're really striving forward so that, um, our students on graduation post probably about 20, 26 will be prescribers. So any student coming in to new programs will be actually, um, studying to a new set of standards, which will enable them to be able to pay prescribers on the first day of registration.  

00:19:28:08 [Speaker 2]: Oh, it's huge.  

00:19:29:02 [Speaker 1]: It's massive. It really is massive and will open up even more opportunities. You know, we've, we've been talking about pharmacists prescribers for a number of years and it just has, we just haven't had that critical mass of pharmacists prescribers to really make massive difference in a kind of, um, public perception way. But certainly our current pharmacy prescribers are invaluable to our medical professionals, to our, our other allied health professionals. You know, 

00:20:02:05 they are seen as a great asset, a great resource. And if you speak to anybody currently working in general practice, um, they will be able to tell you how fantastic being part of that multi-disciplinary team is and how well they're, they're seeing within the multidisciplinary thing. You know, we have pharmacists who are now going on to be, um, partners in 

00:20:26:04 general practice. You know, we, we didn't have that five, 10 years ago. So, you know, that's a new area for pharmacists to go into. Um, I talked to my students and I say, well, what interests you? You know, what is it that, that really gets you excited? What, what, what is it that makes you feel that you want to just really explore new new areas? And I think because pharmacy and because medicines are a key thread throughout so many 

00:20:59:05 different things that we do as just human beings, there's potentially a rule for a pharmacist in nearly anything and everything. If you can, you know, be passionate enough and really work hard at that, I genuinely feel that there is a rule for a pharmacist because it's incorporates health and wellbeing. You know, it incorporates, um, good quality of life if you have 

00:21:27:17 either a chronic or acute condition, um, and the transferable skills that you get from being a pharmacist.  

00:21:36:01 [Speaker 1]: So I've had the pleasure of having thousands of students go through, um, the, the modules that I, that I lead. Um, and I can see pharmacists really taking those transferable skills and maybe not staying in the world of pharmacy per se, but going into, um, pharmaceutical companies, um, developing new drugs or possibly being part of the team that, um, markets new drugs, or I've seen form Cisco into, uh, public 

00:22:07:22 health arenas, where they really look up bigger public health issues, where, where medicines will be a huge help. So it's a wide scope. Lots of things are possible. Oh, so excited. Um, I really feel lucky to have had so many students that 

00:22:34:25 are fantastic. And, you know, I, I try to look out to see where they're going to see where it is that they end up. Um, and I've just recently set up a mentor scheme within the university of Sussex, our current undergraduate pharmacy students. Um, and because I've got such a brilliant network of really successful pharmacists, I was able to just use LinkedIn 

00:23:04:02 as a platform to reach out to them. And we not only harm, I think it's something like 12 of our undergraduate pharmacists being supported with, uh, supported by pharmacists who were my previous students. So it's just a really nice way of looking at the circle and seeing them really being able to inspire, you know, the next generation as well. So certainly communication and networking is paramount. So with regards to 

00:23:48:04 day, one of, um, being within your, your first year at university for pharmacy, there is a real emphasis on getting you to meet your peers 

00:24:01:19 because peer learning is such a useful tool. You know, we are there as lecturers to facilitate the learning to kind of guide it support. But actually if you get a good group of peers, a roaring G then peer learning is fantastic and lots of the universities will also have, and peer support systems so that they can make sure that the pharmacy students that come in, 

00:24:31:07 you know, day one we'll have opportunities to network with, uh, older students so that they get that kind of guidance. So they don't feel like they are, um, just being left to, to find their own way. We try everything that we can to make sure that they feel supported.  

00:24:52:04 [Speaker 1]: Um, and what we'll also be doing. It's, it's really about trying to in year one, make sure everybody's at the same baseline of, of core knowledge around the sciences, because pharmacy is based on a scientific degree, you know, but we also incorporate lots of the practice aspects. So your communication skills and your professionalism, you know, 

00:25:22:22 it's really about day one, making sure that pharmacists, pharmacy students are aware they're entering a profession. So with that comes extra rules and responsibilities. So, you know, you don't turn off your professionalism when you close your office door at six o'clock in evening, you're a pharmacist in all aspects of your life. So we do have to ensure that the 

00:25:51:06 students are aware that they're signing up to a professional program and they need to be aware of what that means to them in their studies, but also in their personal life. So we, we really do need to, uh, encourage their development personally so that they can become mature adults. Um, I mean, many of them will be coming to us as a mature students. Anyway, you know, pharmacy is the, um, type of 

00:26:22:06 degree where actually we find that some of our mature students make the best students because they've got that underpinning, um, professionalism that enables their professional judgment. Um, but yeah, we really try and support and we try to develop them as a pharmacist, but also as a person, because to me, when I have students that come for open days, I say to them, 

00:26:49:08 it's really important that you like the place that you're going, because you're going to be there for four years. So actually your environment and the people around you and the lectures and, and what the city is like, or, or the, the location that's as important as the degree program itself, because you'd need to develop as a person as well, not just as a professional  

00:27:19:05 [Speaker 1]: Well, we've got a really, um, so I worked at the university of Brighton and the university of Sussex, or I'm currently in Sussex. We have a very small program in Sussex. So if I, if I pull of my experiences from the university of Brighton, we have a really diverse group, which has just fantastic, you know, we've got very outgoing, um, students and those that are maybe a bit more reserved. Um, but we, we 

00:27:49:07 certainly see them develop over the four years. We see them grow and confidence, grow and capabilities really flourish. And as I say, it's all for me about trying to get the student to maximize their own potential. You know, what is it that they want? So one of my main focuses, both the university of Brighton in university of Sussex is career development, 

00:28:13:16 career pathway. Where is it that you want to be knowing that might make it? So, like I say from day one, you need to know where you want to be in five, 10 years time. And that's not true because, you know, as she gained experiences, um, you, your, your desires, your thoughts, your words might change. Um, but it's getting them to realize that I actually, there are certain key under printing key underpinning principles of being a pharmacist. So respect, honesty, integrity, uh, good communication. You 

00:28:50:23 know, all of those things can be transferred into all aspects, all sectors of pharmacy, or if they choose that they want to do something completely different. There are great transferable skills to have as well.  

00:29:18:01 [Speaker 1]: Well, the Olympic games is a standard moment and that's probably only superseded by the Paralympic games because the Paralympic games in my mind were even bigger than the Olympic games. She never was the first time ever that the Paralympic games seemed to have a really big audience. It was embraced by the whole of London. Um, and so having those experiences of sitting in the poly clinic, which was in the 

00:29:52:15 middle of the athlete's village, so absolutely beautiful environment to be within, you know, state of the art, uh, poly clinic, where we had optometrists, um, physios. We had podiatrists, we had doctors, you know, we had state of the art x-ray machines. We'd got everything that you could think of, um, was in this one building. And we were at the very front of 

00:30:18:24 the building. So all of the athletes walking in, or the coaches or the support family, we were there to meet and great and answer any of the questions and the queries that they had because clearly in sport, there are, there are certain medicines that are bond. So there's a thing called WADA, the world anti-doping agency. And then you have a list of drugs that are deemed to either be performance enhancing or, 

00:30:48:20 um, or bond due to the potential harms to the, the athletes. So we have to be extremely cautious when we have athletes come in and we have many athletes come in from countries across the world, um, asking for minor ailment, um, treatments, such as, um, diarrhea, coughs and colds, you know, lots of different things. And we had to be very cautious about what we were 

00:31:17:22 giving. I'm being really aware of the true benefits of this drug, because, you know, anything you give has potential consequences. So it, it better to give better note to give, you know, what, what are we aiming for? What's the goal of the treatment here? So it was a real collaborative process, which is great because shared decision-making with your patients or the guardians or whoever's involved in the treatment process is really it's 

00:31:45:16 really, um, rewarding because you're getting the patient to also understand, you know, if treatment is necessary or if treatment isn't necessary.  

00:31:55:22 [Speaker 1]: And I remember doing a open day talk at the university of Brighton after my experience in the Olympic games. Um, and I was watching it only the other day. And I remember the big thing was with given night, a huge number of condoms at the Olympic games and people were making, um, kind of puns by the, in the, in the press, you know, about how many condoms were given, but actually there was a real key public health 

00:32:27:02 message, uh, rowing, you know, using condoms to prevent disease and to prevent pregnancy. And that was really key, you know, being able to actually speak to some athletes from countries where maybe, you know, free condoms, weren't the norm, and then being able to talk to them about, well, have you thought about having HIV tests, have you thought about having a 

00:32:53:20 committee, a task? Tell me so about, you know, how you make sure that the sexual partners you have are going to, um, not be at risk or you're not going to be at risk. And although it was like a really fun thing, everybody coming in or can have a packet of condoms, it actually enabled those really opportunistic discussions, which actually could have potentially significant impact, not just for that individual, but for that country, you know, so high, high things were happening in different countries. So that's 

00:33:25:21 probably one of the best moments and I really thoroughly enjoyed it. It was just fantastic experience.  

00:33:39:25 [Speaker 2]: Yeah.  

00:33:48:23 [Speaker 1]: Yeah. That's exactly what it was, John. We were like the hub, we became this place to hang out, you know, um, to kind of just we're a big TV. So people were able to watch what was going on in the various different venues. Um, there was a lot of hustle and bustle because it was this third for, of other people coming in for dental appointments, optometry, whatever it was, we were just there to meet. Great. And, um, to 

00:34:19:14 be someone to talk to, you know, if the word feeling anxious, you know, so it w it was a really great experience. Oh, sorry. It's cause I talked too much. Apologies.  

00:35:01:03 [Speaker 2]: Yeah,  

00:35:01:12 [Speaker 1]: Definitely. Um, so on graduation, um, I decided that I wanted to be a community pharmacist. So my first role was community pharmacy. And I think I decided community pharmacy probably because 70% of students go into community pharmacy. That's where the biggest number of placements are. It's what probably, if you ask anybody well in the public, where do you say pharmacists, what you sit in the pharmacy or in the 

00:35:32:25 chemist shop. So, you know, it's the, it's the kind of go-to for most students, things are developing and that's not a really true anymore. But when I graduated at 20 years ago, actually this year, that was where, um, I went and, uh, it's where I'd had the most experience. So it's where I felt most comfortable. So I, I was a community pharmacist to begin with. Um, on 

00:36:01:06 registration, I went to a very large, uh, multiple, uh, um, became a manager because that's kind of how you develop within community pharmacy.  

00:36:14:09 [Speaker 1]: Usually you're a pharmacist, you develop into a pharmacy manager, and then if you want to continue with the retail route, you might go up into store manager and, and so on. But I became a pharmacy manager, which enabled me to work really closely with my primary care colleagues and got me to realize that there was more to the world of pharmacy and it kind of just opened that door. And I thought, Hm, I can do other things here. I don't ha I don't have to be in the, the, the retail 

00:36:46:06 environment I can be in, um, other areas of pharmacy. So I, I maintained my community pharmacy commitment because I think being patient facing is really important for me. I find that it's something I've thoroughly enjoy. Um, and it keeps me up to date with what's happening for my colleagues who are in community, but I moved into primary and I became what we call a 

00:37:11:23 prescribing advisor. So go to GP surgeries, and I would look at what they were prescribing, and I would help them rationalize the prescribing mother that'd be on a financial basis, or whether that be along side guidelines, you know, so everything's always changing in pharmacy. You know, the first line drug that you recommend will be different in 10 years time normally, or it might even be different in a couple of years time. So I supported my, um, GP 

00:37:41:14 colleagues around their prescribing, um, developing policies, um, looking at their spend, looking at ways we could rationalize and support prescribing within primary care. That led me to a rule of primary care locality manager, which was a slightly different role to prescribing adviser because I started to look at the overall budgets of GP surgery. So I was looking after multimillion point budgets, uh, for patients going for 

00:38:12:18 elective or non-elective surgery, um, visits to hospital.  

00:38:17:22 [Speaker 1]: I had a project where I looked at patients who were regularly going into hospital, trying to understand what was causing this, uh, continual need to be in hospital. And a lot of it was around social care needs. So working with social care colleagues to try and put packages in place to really safeguard those patients, um, and dance, or always had an element, those rules always had an element of training. Cause I worked with, um, pharmacy technicians, or I would be working with community 

00:38:53:21 pharmacy colleagues, and I would be providing training. So training became something that was kind of embedded, ingrained in what I was doing. So I approached the university, um, and I started working with the university, um, sourcing funding to provide training on a more, um, regional basis. And not that may then into academia where I, um, then became a lead for 

00:39:22:23 prescribing and for some of our other postgraduate programs. So, um, providing training for, um, folks undergraduate and post-graduate students. Um, and that's really where I'm at at the minute, but always with that background of new exciting projects, whether that be drugs and sports, 

00:39:47:14 so have continued to learn through this whole process. So being a pharmacist, uh, the, the, the attorney and you will unfortunately, or fortunately I enjoy it. So it's something that I thrive on and I'm my next project is hopefully going to do a doctorate. So my next big thing is to, to sign up to that, you know, four or five years of learning. Um, so that's 

00:40:17:10 kind of where my career has been. And as I say, um, different bits of volunteering and, um, consultancy work with things like, um, the PGA tour. So the, uh, professional golf association tour. So I go along to Wentworth every year and talk to them about their medicines management policies and support them around prescribing issues for the professional golfers. So, 

00:40:44:08 yeah, lots going on. I'd like to have a, uh, a personal life that goes on alongside that as well. Yeah. Well, I th I think, I think it is that thing 

00:41:08:14 of the new shiny thing. What's next, what's next always looking for a  

00:41:20:09 [Speaker 1]: I think the beauty of pharmacy for me is the networking. So it's enabled me to have so many colleagues and friends in different parts of the country, different parts of the world, um, that it's really just enriched my life, you know, so I've, and because it's enabled me to, I suppose, hone my networking and communications skills, I know 

00:41:51:11 volunteer, um, with my local, uh, community. So I, I'm part of I'm a secretary for my local gardening club don't know anything about gardening, but that's not what I need to be able to do. I need to be able to pull people together. So we do lots of fundraising events, which is fantastic. Um, and I'm also, um, secretary for a small organization in Brighton called 

00:42:20:17 the camp tiny secret garden. So it's this gorgeous little, um, garden that's hidden and in camp tine hidden away. And we put on, um, exhibitions of quite famous artists. So, uh, most recent one before long time was William pie. So I was involved in, you know, meeting and greeting and helping the trustees rowing that. So it's just really enriched my life because it's given me so many 

00:42:47:06 transferable skills and just the, no, sorry, I don't know, because I don't know what I would have done had I not done pharmacy. Um, yeah, I, I really don't know. I think for me, if I was talking to my 18 year old self again, 

00:43:19:16 if I was able to try and, you know, go back, um, I would just say, you know, harness all opportunities, but maybe become a little bit more focused because what you might find from other pharmacists that you speak with that they have maybe not hard as much variety in what they've done, but they've maybe stuck with one area. And maybe depending on how you view progress 

00:43:46:01 further in not one field, you know, they may have, um, become much more expert in that one field. Whereas I have a very broad knowledge. And so I think would I have done it differently? Probably not. I probably would have said to myself, make sure that you go to Rio 2016. Cause I did have a place on Rio 2016, but wasn't able to, to fulfill that commitment, unfortunately, um, due to other things, but, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's been a world when 

00:44:19:21 then it's just been really enjoyable. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. And I suppose there's just no looking forward. What's my next thing. What's the next big thing to do?  

00:44:40:09 [Speaker 1]: Oh, completely. Oh, I mean, but I, I have always loved learning and I, and I think that's really key that people have to realize that this is a lifelong learning profession, like all of the healthcare professions, because things don't stay static. So what you learn in university, unfortunately may not ring true 10, 20 years down the line. And what I mean by that is not that the concepts will change. So not the 

00:45:10:15 underpinning knowledge and concepts, but because we become better at trading conditions because we get better medicines, you know, things evolve, we need to be able to evolve with it. And that's really, really key. If you want something where you're going to just learn that I never changed your views or never change what you want to do, then don't go into pharmacy because it's an ever evolving area. And we are going into probably 

00:45:41:06 one of our most exciting periods in, uh, the pharmacy profession, because we're moving to this, every registering and becoming a prescriber, we're moving towards pharmacists being truly integrated into the NHS family. Um, and it really is just a degree that enables you to do so many things. If 

00:46:07:04 you are willing to put the work in, if you can be passionate about it and just, you know, really, truly maximize your own potential. Oh no, that's okay.  

00:46:35:15 [Speaker 2]: No,  

00:46:36:24 [Speaker 1]: The big, the big thing that we find when I, well, what I find when I speak to my, my students is some of them feel like they've been kind of sold a lie, so I don't want this to necessarily go in, but that what they've, what they think is they don't realize that you kind of got to go through all of the aspects of being a pharmacist. So when you're usually in training, you know, you might be asked to put the 

00:47:06:19 medicines on the shelf, you know, unpack the delivery, or you might be asked to, you know, and I don't know, go and get the coffee, make a coffee, or you might be, you know, you might be asked to do these things that kind of what people feel sits outside of the realms. Well, I haven't spent five years in education to do this. Um, and I always think that when I talk about my pharmacy journey, that people think that I'm almost telling them 

00:47:37:07 AFib, you know, that can't happen. But I think it's the people that prevent themselves from getting where they want to be as opposed to pharmacy. And I don't know how to put that. I don't know how to say other than maximizing your own potential, finding something that you're truly interested in.  

00:47:59:13 [Speaker 1]: It's kind of making them aware that the need to go with the, the, the needs of rule with the ups and the dimes, you know, you have to, it won't failure is okay. That's something that I would like to say to pharmacists. So Ryan, you know, we have a lot of students who do not like to get it wrong, but getting it wrong is part of the process of learning. If you don't get it wrong, you can't learn from your mistakes. 

00:48:31:17 No, by that, I'm not saying have a catastrophic error that leads to patient harm or leads to death because clearly we have to, as pharmacists support with that, you know, that's where our training kicks in, you know, we're problem solvers, we're managing risk. We're always looking at what is the, the risks, benefits calculator, you know, the benefits really have to weigh 

00:48:58:20 the risks for us to be able to go forward with something. But when you're in an environment, especially in your undergraduate, speak up, say what you think if you get it wrong, it's usually okay. Because it means at least you're formulating ideas, you're formulating, um, those kinds of processes that you need to get to, to be a good problem solver. So 

00:49:29:08 failure is okay. And to see it as being okay, and as part of the learning process, so get involved, be engaged, speak up, say what you think, um, and then take that learning and experience and change it as you move forward, because it's okay to get it wrong usually. And there is that caveat, you know, it's okay to get it wrong. So, yeah, but it's really interesting. The 

00:50:01:00 students I've asked them directly before standing up in the front of a lecture theater of a hundred students and going, why won't you answer getting frustrated and likable? I don't want to get it wrong. And it's like, it's okay. I constantly get it wrong. But I learned from that, it's the learning from that  

00:50:38:09 [Speaker 1]: Well, it's like what I say to the students, the, the, um, cause people say, well, I do want to ask a stupid question and I'm like, well, there are no stupid questions. The only stupid question is the question not asked. So how do you, how do you know? Yeah. But it, but it's part and parcel of it. It isn't that. So, yeah, that would probably be the main thing, making sure that people realize it's okay to get it wrong as 

00:51:09:21 long as you can own it, learn from it and change, whatever it is that you've done wrong to get to the right place. Yeah. Completely. Completely. Okay. Well thank you very much. It's really 

00:51:40:12 nice to see you again.  

00:51:44:23 [Speaker 2]: Yes. Oh yeah. That probably would help. Can I just have a wee sip of Coke? So my name and my role. Okay. So hi, my name is Claire may. My rule is senior 00:52:10:02 lecturer in pharmacy practice at the university of Sussex.

00:00:01:22 [Speaker 1]: Oh, I like the countdown. I can hear you. Fine. I have actually, I've just had, you can spare me, um, uh, 30 seconds to run upstairs. I can actually get in speaker that we even better than that. I'll see you in a minute. Okay. I can hear you much better now. Let's get myself back in the middle. 

00:01:28:15 Is that like, I can't see the screen and look at the camera at the same 

00:01:31:14 time, but is that what you've referred?  

00:01:35:01 [Speaker 2]: Yeah.  

00:01:53:19 [Speaker 1]: Okay. Yep. Hello Mike. Hello? Uh, my name is Matthew Jones. I'm a senior lecturer in the department of pharmacy and pharmacology at the university of bath. Hello, my name is Matthew Jones and I'm a senior lecturer in the department of pharmacy and pharmacology at the university of bath. I, I, I could give the 

00:02:41:19 stereotypical answer. Um, yeah, well, I don't want to be boring. Well, what 

00:03:03:03 frustrates me about what the public think about pharmacy is those occasions when people say, Oh, you know, it's just putting a few tablets in a box. It's just counting tablets. It's actually much more complicated than that. Making sure that a medicine is a safe and effective medicine that's right for that patient requires an awful lot of knowledge from all sorts of different areas. And that's really the pharmacist's main role. The 

00:03:27:21 provision and providing of that medicine afterwards is, is important, but it definitely comes after making sure it's the right medicine first place. Yeah, of course. So my dad was a pharmacist at a hospital pharmacist and 

00:04:04:16 the community pharmacist. Um, and when I was growing up computers, weren't common and in your house. So the first computer I ever saw was in my dad's pharmacy. And that in my, my young minds sort of gave me this idea that pharmacy was a very, uh, exciting and futuristic thing. And that, that got 

00:04:24:21 me thinking I wanted to be involved with it. And then maybe 10 years later when I was 16 or so, and thinking more seriously about careers, um, I kind of thought I wanted to be a pharmacist, but when I tried to look at it rationally, I saw it was a career that fitted with the sciences that I was good at at school, but also meant I could go to university and do a degree, but come out, knowing I had a profession to go into and give me some, some 

00:04:52:02 job security going into the future.  

00:05:04:01 [Speaker 1]: Definitely I saw that I could graduate and I could have a career that I already had the skills to go and do. Um, and then lots of opportunity once I was in that career to, to go and develop and do different things over the years when I was younger. Interesting question. 

00:05:35:09 Um, I think, I think it was the way that it took the sciences that I really enjoyed at school. Um, and it drew drew on all of them. It wasn't just chemistry. It wasn't just biology. It wasn't just physics or math. It drew on all of them and put them together and then applied that actually to real world problems, um, and a career that I could, um, get into and, and 

00:06:03:06 develop throughout my life. Yes, I guess, I guess that came a bit later. So, um, when I, when I first did some, um, genuine research as part of my final year project, as an undergraduate students, I found that really exciting to be doing these 

00:06:35:07 experiments. Uh, we were working on a project which no one had ever tried before. We had no idea whether it would work or not, how to make it work, what the results would be. And I found that really exciting. And that's what got me interested in research as a, as a pharmacy career. And I suppose that excitement has continued up to now the excitement of having a new idea, working out how it might work, putting that into practice. And 

00:07:01:12 then if it does work, that's a particularly rewarding moment.  

00:07:14:12 [Speaker 1]: Let me just check my list. It's um, it's not very, it's not very neat, but there is a list. Um, okay. So I think one of my most rewarding moments, um, was towards the end of a research project I've been doing for two or three years, and we've been working on a particular way to help nurses give injections more safely in hospital. And I've been doing all this work over the years and collecting data, but it was all 

00:07:45:24 anonymized and hidden from me. So I didn't know what the results were. And the day came, when I finished all the work, I had all the results in the computer and I could reveal what they were and when I hit that button and got the results back and I could see that it worked, that was a particularly exciting and rewarding moment because I knew from that all sorts of useful improvements in the future could, could come from that. Yeah. I, I guess I, personality wise, I tend not to get that excited about 

00:08:28:05 stuff, but yeah, for me, that was a particular euphoric moment, um, is certainly one of the highs of my career. Um, yeah, yeah, it was, it was, I thought it was working and it was that moment of truth. When you, you see 

00:08:46:22 the numbers in front of you and you can see a big difference between them and, you know, yes, that's a real phenomenon. That's something that, that is genuine. And we can make some difference with that. I think it was the satisfaction that the, I, or phrase the question. So that was satisfying for me because it was, it was demonstrating that the idea I'd had several 

00:09:19:19 years previously was correct and that this way of making injection safer really would work. Um, but also because it was, it was showed that we could take that idea forward, take it into the NHS and begin to implement it there and make a difference to how patients are cared for in the NHS. And so that idea of improving care for people across the country was a very 

00:09:44:07 exciting idea as well.  

00:09:50:10 [Speaker 1]: Definitely. Yes. The idea was simple enough that you could roll it out and get it into use in practice. So yeah, I'll take my 

00:10:24:04 time. I'll tell you the story. Um, so I began, after my degree, I began my career by doing my pre-registration training in a hospital pharmacy. And I chose that because, um, at that time there was a lot more variety in hospital pharmacy work than there was in community pharmacy work that's changed now, but, um, there was more variety. You could get more involved 

00:10:52:05 with patients and influencing their care and making sure they were given the right medicines. And then after doing that, I then went back to university and I did a PhD. And I did that because I got really excited by my final year research project in my pharmacy degree. And I wanted to do more research. I wanted to learn more about that. So I spent three years doing research into how inhalers work. Um, and that 

00:11:24:03 was very exciting as I, as I've already talked about, um, the excitement of trying something new, trying to make it work. And then the excitement when it really does work and you get results, I really enjoyed that. And that was incredibly rewarding. So after doing that for three years, I then went and worked as a researcher at a different university for a couple of years where I was working in the same field. And that, that continued to have 

00:11:49:01 that excitement of, of doing research at the cutting edge of science.  

00:11:56:16 [Speaker 1]: And then after two years there, um, I then went back and worked in hospital pharmacy again. Um, and there were a couple of reasons for that. It was a case of needing to move to a different parts of the country because of my personal life and needing to find a job. Um, and then not being a sort of research job there at the time. But also there's the feeling that I had originally wanted to be a hospital pharmacist when I trained as a, as a pharmacist. And so I wanted to go back to that. Um, and 

00:12:30:09 so I got a job in a hospital pharmacy, and I was working in a field called medicines information, which is always something that had excited me as, uh, a pre-registration pharmacist. And I was really grateful to get the job in that field again at that, at this hospital. Um, and the thing that excited me about that and why, uh, why I chose to go into that was it was 

00:12:54:23 about, um, how can I explain it? Um, so the reason I chose to go into, into medicines information in particular is because it meant in that role, I could make a difference for lots of patients at once. Lots of pharmacists do really valuable work working one-on-one with one patient at a time, and that's incredibly important, but I liked the idea in this role, but I could make sure that 

00:13:28:23 all my colleagues in the hospital were provided with the support and the information about medicines that they needed to look after their patients. And so by doing my job, I could influence the care of patients across the hospital. I particularly enjoyed that. And I liked the fact that in that role, you've got all the strange cases to look into all the unusual situations. So I learned about all sorts of unusual things, and I just enjoyed that variety, but that, that role gave me.  

00:13:56:23 [Speaker 1]: And then finally after, um, doing that for six of six or seven years, um, I then moved back into universities where I started work as a lecturer, uh, which is the job I do now. Um, and I made that move because at that point in my career, I spent roughly half of my time doing research in universities and roughly half of my time working as a frontline pharmacist. And I liked the idea of bringing those two things together to 

00:14:27:21 use my, um, experience of practice, to teach future pharmacists, um, and to use my experience of the problems I come across in practice to do research on those problems, to try and solve them in the future. So I could have that satisfaction of discovering new things through research and the satisfaction of taking students on a four year journey to qualify. Um, but drawing on my it, my experience of practice, how's that sound well it's, 

00:15:08:03 it's a slightly sanitized version of the truth, but pharmacy gives all 

00:15:28:08 sorts of opportunities to, to problem solve. So if I talk about my time as a hospital pharmacist, I was solving problems every day, because very often the sort of standard advice about medicines applies to let's say, 95% of patients. And so you've got 5% of patients who are unusual in some way, maybe because of their medical history or the other medicines they take. And when you come across one of those more 

00:15:57:19 unusual patients, you've got to find a new way of, of treating them effectively and safely taking into account that unusual thing about their history. So every day I'd come across, something like that, and particularly working in medicines information, those unusual problems would be directed to me. So I'd be solving those problems for individual patients on a daily basis. Um, then you have kind of bigger problem solving in the 

00:16:27:06 hospital where, for example, uh, let's say there's been a problem in the manufacturer of a medicine it's not available.  

00:16:33:18 [Speaker 1]: You've got to solve the problem of what are we going to use in stairs? How are we going to treat these patients safely and effectively, but not using the medicine that's unavailable? What else can we use that, that's just another example. And then now as a researcher, when you do research by almost by definition, it hasn't been done before. And so it almost never works the first time. And so you've got to understand the problem, find out what's causing your problems and then find solutions to those. And you keep working at it until it, until it works. 

00:17:07:01 And that's an incredibly rewarding moments. I sort of talk for my half of my career, don't say interesting. So my role 

00:17:34:15 now as a lecturer has two components. Um, I teach, uh, future pharmacists, the skills they need to, to develop and qualify as a pharmacist. And I do into how we can use medicines more safely and how we can get drugs into the lungs from things like inhalers. So I, I do have to balance those two 

00:18:04:05 roles. Ideally it would be about 50 50. Um, uh, how, how am I going to talk about this? This is, this is a challenge. This is one of the biggest challenges of my job. Yeah, yeah. That that's, I can work some of that in, um, presumably you don't. Yeah. It's, it's more about that higher level stuff than here's what I do with my calendar. Um, so there's two sides of 

00:18:44:02 my job do have to be balanced.  

00:18:46:02 [Speaker 1]: Um, and so I have to have very strict time management and make sure I allocate sufficient time to each of them because they are both important. And, um, I mustn't focus just on one maybe, which is busier at the moment. I've got to make sure they both carry on developing so good time management is certainly key to that, but they do inform each other. The results of my research means I can teach our students about the latest findings, um, in my part of pharmacy. So they come out right up to date when they leave the university with all the 

00:19:19:11 latest developments and then working with the students, um, really informs my research because, because they come new to pharmacy, they don't have some of the preconceptions and knowledge that I have. And so they're seeing it with fresh eyes. And so when they see that there's a problem, I, that helps me see, there's a problem there. And then I can begin, try and find the solution for that through my research. Yes, the students are very curious. Um, and they often ask questions where 

00:19:59:22 I think, hang on a minute, I don't know the answer to that. I better go and find that out. Or, or they challenge me to explain why something's done in a certain way. And when I think about it, I can see why it's done in that way. And that, that is the best way to do it. But perhaps I haven't thought 

00:20:16:18 about it before and I just accepted. That was how it was done. So they, they do push you to be very clear in your thinking about things.  

00:20:42:21 [Speaker 1]: One of the things I enjoy about working with the next generation of pharmacists is, is getting to know them over four years and helping them through that journey. Lots of students will encounter difficulties on the way, and it's really rewarding to work with them, to help them come up with strategies to overcome those difficulties and that to come through and to graduate. And it's particularly rewarding at the end of their four years to see the list of people who've passed to go to graduation, to see people celebrating their success. And to know that 

00:21:16:00 they've overcome some, some real barriers on the way that you've played, just the very small part in helping them get there. That's, that's a particularly rewarding. Yeah. Yes. Let me think. What can I say without ribbing, but I I've got, 

00:21:47:15 I've got a good match. It, no, no. I wish a particular moment I was proud was when, um, I worked with one of our secondary students over the summer. Um, she was doing a summer, um, research placement with me. I mean, she worked with me for about eight weeks and she, she traveled around the country, um, collecting data from patients on a particular subject. She put 

00:22:17:00 it all together. Um, and she found some really interesting things. And we actually managed to write that up as a scientific paper and publish that when she was in her third year. And that's something that probably most pharmacists never managed to do. So the fact that she'd managed it in her third year of her degree was incredibly impressive. Um, and then I've gone on to watch her as her career develops and that's particularly rewarding to see her, her going on to the future success. Now she's a qualified 

00:22:45:00 pharmacist. Yeah. Yeah. You do. You, you, you see you meet, you meet students as, um, nervous 18 year olds. They'd just come out of school. They're in a whole new environment. And then four years later, um, they are almost qualified professionals and much more confident and they're going off to the next stage of their career and, and helping them through that 

00:23:16:11 journey. It's very rewarding. Let me have a look lots of though, right? This is where it talks about flexibility before, which wasn't quite it 

00:23:44:12 doesn't quite.  

00:23:48:07 [Speaker 2]: Yeah.  

00:23:54:21 [Speaker 1]: So I think one of the ways my journey through pharmacy is, has impacted me personally, is that, um, pharmacy has given me lots of flexibility. So when things have happened in my personal life that have changed and I need to do something a bit different pharmacy has given me the ability to still have a rewarding and interesting career, but to also accommodate those, those changes in my life. Um, so that that's impacted me personally, cause I'm, I'm still satisfied with my career, but 

00:24:27:11 I've also been able to account for, for my personal life. So I think people should develop, or I think people should consider a career in pharmacy if they want to do something that is very varied. Something that maybe 

00:24:57:21 requires them to have knowledge of science one minute, but the next minute to have some knowledge of, uh, psychology and behavior and how to help people behave in a more healthy way. And then the next minute to have some knowledge of project management and logistics and so on. So if you, if you're interested in variety in your career, then, then pharmacy is, is certainly a good career to go into. If you're looking for a career that is flexible, that gives you the chance to, uh, develop over time, to try new 

00:25:29:00 roles when you want a new challenge or to move to a different parts of the country, and they'll still be pharmacists there, then pharmacists is another good option for you.  

00:25:58:13 [Speaker 1]: So when I, when I saw that computer many years ago at the pharmacy was mainly about supplying medicines to people and it's changed so much in the decades since then, but now I think the future is, is really bright for pharmacy. Um, pharmacists can now write prescriptions. They're getting involved in assessing patients and caring for them independently of, of, of other health professionals, but still working in a team with those health professionals. Their role is increasingly being 

00:26:30:14 recognized as, as experts in medicines and people that are absolutely vital for, uh, using medicine safely across the health system, not just supplying them correctly. So I think the future is very bright for pharmacy Yes. Um, what should I say about that? I think, yeah, the, the role of, and 

00:27:09:10 the expertise of a pharmacist has, has not been fully used for many years, but in the last few years, that's really beginning to be recognized and, and changes are coming through that makes much better use of pharmacist's expertise. And that will only continue in the future. Particularly as medicines get ever more complicated, that expertise is going to be ever 

00:27:32:03 more vital. Um, let me just see if I wrote anything particularly good in my 00:28:00:07 notes. Probably not. Um, No, I don't think no, I think, I think that's good. Yeah. I'll look at you now..

00:00:00:13 [Speaker 1]: Yes. That's like for the best. Okay. Um, I wanted to, um, have a think about how things have shifted on cozy and how last time pharmacists have really stepped up and were on the front lines or the pandemic.  

00:00:26:00 [Speaker 2]: Okay. So, um, COVID has really sort of accelerated things within pharmacy is probably how best to describe it. Um, so I mean, certainly in community pharmacy, you know, eight, well, just over a year ago now, um, you know, we were, you know, one of very few businesses that were still open, um, you know, we alongside kind of supermarkets and sort of those sorts of things. We, we were the only thing that we're allowed to be open. And, you know, I can remember the patients phoning us up to ask 

00:01:00:14 us, are you open? Um, as a company, we had to send out, you know, messages, text messages to all of our patients to let them know that we were still open. Um, and I think what has really been, as I say, the biggest thing is, is that it's, it's accelerated things. So, you know, we've very, very 

00:01:23:20 quickly had to change the way that we worked and the way that we do things. And actually what it has meant is that, you know, things that were sort of in the pipeline to be done for pharmacy, um, you know, we've managed to kind of get those rolled out much earlier than we might've anticipated. There have been some things that have been put kind of on the back burner a little bit. Um, but certainly in terms of the, you know, the way that we're communicating with patients, um, you know, that has changed and, you know, 

00:01:58:16 we're, we're certainly doing that in, in different ways and we're starting to use utilize much more kind of, um, technology within that. So we're doing more digital consultations with patients and that's becoming much more normal for us to do, whereas before it would always be, you know, a patient would come in and talk to us and that has benefits on both sides, uh, because you know, it means that patients don't necessarily have to come down to actually speak to us. Um, and you know, we're able to offer sort of 

00:02:31:15 a much wider range of, of things to our patients. So for me, that's certainly how COVID has changed things for us, but our doors are still open. They always always were and always will be  

00:02:49:00 [Speaker 1]: Like you say much. I think that gives us a nice jumping off point into thinking about the future of pharmacy, how things are shifting innovations that play and your vision for the future, what you would like to see happen.  

00:03:08:15 [Speaker 2]: Okay. So for me, the future of pharmacy is really, really bright. Um, I think we have got so much opportunity that is, you know, at our feet at the moment and, you know, we've got to grasp it with both hands and run. Um, we've got new standard, new initial education and training standards for pharmacy, which will mean that, um, you know, pharmacists who start their training, um, in the next sort of year or two will be coming out as qualified independent prescribers when they register, 

00:03:40:05 um, as pharmacists. And that is going to mean that there's going to be some really big changes in the way that pharmacy works fundamentally. Um, you know, it's going to give pharmacists a little bit more autonomy, um, and also a lot more opportunity as well. So, um, you know, we are really gonna end up being integrated as part of that healthcare team, um, in the management of patients, that's certainly the way that I see things, um, 

00:04:10:21 being able to go, you know, exactly how that will look. I think it will depend on the individual pharmacists really, and the needs of, you know, where they are working. Um, and you know, I've, I've said that before, you know, one of the beauties of pharmacy is that everywhere is slightly different, you know, everywhere has different needs, different populations serving it. And, you know, we can make sure that we tailor what we're offering to best suit those people. Um, but I certainly see 

00:04:41:08 pharmacists being able to run, you know, more, you know, clinically focused clinics, um, and you know, being able to utilize a lot of the skills that certainly in community where maybe not drawing on, um, enough, it is most  

00:05:06:13 [Speaker 1]: People just see messages for the bright picture of oppression. Um, I wanted to pop on, I can ask you something in milk, it will pass, but just sort of looking back, um, matching what you were when you were just at uni and I will correct operations, but maybe things at times maybe felt overwhelming and much more you've done with the knowledge 

00:05:40:21 and experience you have now, or what would you say that your younger self?  

00:05:48:07 [Speaker 2]: Okay. So I would say to my younger self is take any opportunity that's offered to you. Um, I, you, you certainly don't know what you like until sometimes you've tried it and you don't know what you don't like as well until you've tried it. And I think understanding both of those things is really important. And just because you do something and you don't like, it doesn't mean that it was a wasted opportunity. Um, you know, you've learned something from that. So I think, you know, reminding myself 

00:06:21:22 of that and taking sort of every opportunity that comes your way and, you know, putting yourself in the frame, um, you know, I often tell the students that I work with and, you know, the people I work with, you know, the only way that you can not get a job is if you don't apply for it. Um, you know, disappointment will always be part of, um, you know, what you have to experience through a career, but if you put yourself there, at 

00:06:48:13 least you're giving yourself that opportunity and you know, who knows what may come from that. Um, so that would be my piece of advice,  

00:07:02:07 [Speaker 1]: But, and I also didn't want that maybe in a nutshell, like the most significant thing, um, as a profession has given you,  

00:07:18:19 [Speaker 2]: Ooh, that's a tough one. You didn't ask me that one last time.  

00:07:23:11 [Speaker 1]: So from  

00:07:24:12 [Speaker 2]: A personal perspective, I would say that pharmacy has, it's given me the opportunity to support people. Um, you know, be that my patients be that, you know, the staff I work with be that, um, you know, my students it's, it's given me the opportunity to, you know, help people in, in ways that actually, I probably never thought that I maybe would necessarily help them. Um, and it's certainly given me a lot of skills, you 

00:07:59:12 know, particularly around, you know, how, how do you communicate with people, um, that I didn't actually see, I didn't actually realize quite the importance of those sorts of skills and, you know, a lot of the, you know, how, how do you get the best from people? Um, and how do you sort of do that? So those are probably the things I think that, that pharmacy has 

00:08:23:24 really kind of brought out for me.  

00:08:31:19 [Speaker 1]: Yeah. I think that's really punchy and important for people to hear. And what I think is a USP is often you package things in a way that are just like a sound bite. You can tell your teacher point is a joy for us. I mean, do you like your neck, wherever else you'd want where 

00:09:05:18 it might take you?  

00:09:08:15 [Speaker 2]: Okay, well, so actually my next steps are that from, um, September, I will be starting in a fellowship role. Um, so I was awarded a place on the chief pharmaceutical officer's clinical fellow scheme, um, which is a scheme to help aspiring, um, leaders in pharmacy developed their leadership and management skills by working in, um, different organizations across pharmacy, kind of interacting with, um, sort 

00:09:40:05 of, um, on a more national level to kind of understand what's going on, um, sort of within pharmacy from that level. So I will be going to work for, um, pharmacies, professional body and the Royal pharmaceutical society, quite what I'm going to get up to for the next 12 months with them. Um, I'm not quite sure, but I'm really, really excited, um, to be doing that. And, you know, hopefully, um, from there, I will know a little bit more about 

00:10:09:08 maybe, maybe what the future holds for me, but I'm, I'm keeping my options open because there are so many of them. Thank you so much.  

00:10:25:01 [Speaker 1]: I don't think so for me, no, like we covered quite a lot of ground close to present day for possibility.  

00:10:36:12 [Speaker 2]: Are you going to say I'm good. Good luck, Jake. I just take this all into something. Okay. Just before we finish,  

00:10:48:10 [Speaker 1]: Could you introduce yourself again? Of course. Um, hi. So, um, my name is Sarah and I am a teacher practitioner. Um, I work for Day-Lewis pharmacy and the university of bath. Is that all you want me to say joke or do you want the whole bit? No, that's perfect. Thank 00:11:20:17 you.